Bongo comments on Foma: Beliefs that Cause Themselves to be True - Less Wrong

21 Post author: atucker 20 June 2011 05:13AM

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Comment author: Bongo 20 June 2011 11:34:30AM *  1 point [-]

Self-help aside, the most basic foma is "I believe this sentence".

Comment author: Benquo 20 June 2011 02:50:35PM 3 points [-]

It's equally coherent for you to believe or disbelieve that sentence, and the uttering doesn't seem to be related to its truth-value.

I would suggest something more like, "This sentence has been written."

Comment author: cousin_it 20 June 2011 01:36:11PM 3 points [-]

Another nice one is "Bongo cannot believe this sentence".

Comment author: benelliott 21 June 2011 02:49:39PM 0 points [-]

I think he can get round the problem by saying that he can, if he chooses, believe it but chooses not to.

Comment author: cousin_it 21 June 2011 03:04:46PM 2 points [-]

This doesn't solve the problem that he's disbelieving an obviously true sentence, though.

Comment author: benelliott 21 June 2011 03:34:20PM 0 points [-]

No, its false. It asserts that he cannot believe it, whereas we are saying that he can. Just because he chooses not to doesn't mean he can't (I choose not the jump out the first story window next to me, but this doesn't mean I can't).

Its the same trick as resolving the "everything I say is false" paradox, some things I say are false, some are true, and that sentence was the first kind.

Comment author: cousin_it 21 June 2011 03:52:42PM *  1 point [-]

Counterfactuals are fun :-) How do you know that he can believe it? Just because he asserts so? It seems to me that he cannot.

Comment author: benelliott 21 June 2011 04:02:57PM 0 points [-]

Why not? Sure, it would be a false belief, but people are capable of holding those.

Comment author: cousin_it 21 June 2011 04:11:01PM *  0 points [-]

Hm, good point. I guess we can close that loophole by saying something like "Bongo cannot believe this sentence and stay consistent".

Comment author: benelliott 21 June 2011 04:33:03PM 1 point [-]

Or "Bongo doesn't believe this sentence".