Raw_Power comments on Dark Arts: Schopenhauer wrote The Book on How To Troll - Less Wrong

8 Post author: Raw_Power 05 July 2011 01:13PM

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Comment author: Raw_Power 05 July 2011 04:20:27PM *  5 points [-]

People trust those who have a record of honesty.

Counterexample: this. Voting. And any and every Politics Is The Mindkiller phenomena. Lord Byron and all the other vamps of both sexes who are reputedly "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" (they ain't just fictional, any PUA, nay, any historian will tell you that). Among many other things.

Actual honestly is worth little to the general public, especially when their hearts are captred, their minds seduced by the possible materialization of fantasies that might even not be their own, planted by the seducer. Our program involves changing this. *Using the Dark Arts to achieve a world of mental hygiene and clear thinking is the problem, because the means, on the long term, detracting from the goal. *

On the other hand, the closer we are to the goal, the less necessary the means will become, and the more they can be potentially hurtful to the goal if people, having gained enlightenment thanks to our effort, look back on what we did and think "they manipulated us" rather than "they told us what we needed to hear", and develop a Romanticism sort of backlash against our Enlightenment work.

Comment author: fortyeridania 08 July 2011 03:03:04PM 1 point [-]

Your counterexamples are valid; they show that dishonesty doesn't always breed distrust among everyone. Specifically, they fail to breed distrust among those who (on some level) want beliefs that oppose reality. I suppose we all fit into this group at times.

The possibility of a Romanticism-like backlash against rationalism is one disadvantage to using deceptive rhetoric, but that assumes the happy situation that rationalism will one day become widespread. I fear that deceptive rhetoric would help prevent that happy situation from obtaining. The use and endorsement of Dark Arts could pose a PR problem for LW even before the "enlightenment" got around.

LW might not be a cult, but deceptive rhetoric is a stereotype of cults. Why make it easier for others to peg LW as one?