r_claypool comments on Book trades with open-minded theists - recommendations? - Less Wrong

8 Post author: Morendil 29 August 2011 05:23AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 29 August 2011 12:50:31PM 9 points [-]

Lewis doesn't argue that the trilemma proves Jesus was God - he uses it to dismiss the wishy-washy agnostic position of "Well, Jesus was a great moral teacher, and worthy of respect, so whether he was God or not doesn't matter."

Lewis' position is "No, hang on a minute, this is someone who's spouting moral platitudes that everyone already agrees with, not anything new as far as the morals go. But he's also claiming to be God - he's saying, over and over again, that he is God. That leaves only three options, really - either he's actually God, or he's a liar, or he's deluded. Whatever he was, he wasn't an exceptionally decent human being, so get off the fence."

Comment author: r_claypool 30 August 2011 04:06:11AM *  6 points [-]

I just want to say thank you for pointing this out. I used to think the trilemma was a terrible argument, but your interpretation reduces my criticism.

Still it's worth noting that Lewis assumed the gospels accurate. He missed an obvious fourth alternative: That Jesus was misquoted and misunderstood.

Lord, Liar, Lunatic, Legend. I'm not a full-blown mythicist, but I think it's very likely Jesus life and sayings were embellished by others.

Comment author: RobbBB 19 November 2012 04:45:30PM *  2 points [-]

A fifth alternative: Lord, Liar, Lunatic, Legend, or Just Plain Wrong. It's amazing that the simplest explanations -- that someone might simply be mistaken, that they might have sanely and honestly misinterpreted the data -- gets so completely ignored and erased.

Comment author: r_claypool 20 November 2012 07:42:04AM 0 points [-]

Yeah, but 'Just Plain Wrong' is how I would describe thinking Hawaii is in the Caribbean; It's not how I would describe having followers that think you are God in flesh.

Comment author: RobbBB 20 November 2012 02:14:26PM *  1 point [-]

The question is whether it's possible to simply be mistaken about having divine powers, without having an underlying mental disorder. And clearly the answer is 'yes;' and clearly this possibility has a higher prior probability than 'Jesus is Lord.' So neglecting the option is unconscionable, and is where the trilemma gets nearly all of its plausibility as an argument for Christianity.

Suppose a few really unlikely events happened, and caused everyone around you to think you were the messiah and/or divine. Would it be inconceivable, barring true insanity or deliberate deception, to come to think oneself the messiah and/or divine? Do you think that every psychic, every cult leader, is either (independently) insane or deliberately lying? It just ain't so; self-deception is stronger than that.

Comment author: r_claypool 21 November 2012 06:41:10PM 0 points [-]

That reminds me of Yvain's 'The Last Temptation of Christ'

Comment author: [deleted] 30 August 2011 12:56:38PM 2 points [-]

True, but again that works for Lewis' argument - if our only sources on him are incorrect, then you still have no basis for saying "Well, he was a specially decent human who did good things..."

Lewis is one of the few religious apologists for whom I have any time, because he at least tried to make decent arguments, and wasn't interested in convincing people by fraud.