occlude comments on Welcome to Less Wrong! (2012) - Less Wrong

25 Post author: orthonormal 26 December 2011 10:57PM

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Comment author: occlude 01 January 2012 09:02:39PM 1 point [-]

Please let me know if I've missed a discussion of this point; it seems important, but I haven't seen it answered.

What is the particular and demonstrable quality of personhood that defines this okay to kill/not okay to kill threshold? In short, what is blicket?

Comment author: Bakkot 01 January 2012 09:10:12PM 3 points [-]

It's not precisely a threshold because it's not binary. The quality is "personhood". Defining personhood is obviously an incredibly difficult thing to do, so I've been avoiding doing so in this thread. However, any reasonable definition I can come up with does not include very young infants. If you think that newborns are people, I'd be interested in hearing why - but I haven't come up with a sufficiently good wording for what I think personhood is to have a debate about it.

Comment author: occlude 01 January 2012 09:55:29PM 4 points [-]

I won't argue that newborns are people, because I have the same problem defining person that you seem to have. But until I can come up with a cogent reduction distilling person to some quality or combination of qualities that actually exist -- some state of a region of the universe -- then it seems prudent to err on the side of caution.

Comment author: Bakkot 01 January 2012 10:09:13PM *  3 points [-]

Agreed, but ten months seems to be erring pretty hard on the side of caution to me - dolphins seem far more like people than ten month old babies, but I don't think killing a dolphin should be treated as the same crime as killing a (eta adult) human.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 01 January 2012 09:25:04PM 3 points [-]

Well, one relatively simple question that might help clarify some things: do I remain a person when I'm asleep?

Comment author: Bakkot 01 January 2012 09:36:09PM 2 points [-]

Yes - even while sleeping, your brain contains all the structure and information necessary for personhood, as is easily empirically demonstrated by waking you up.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 01 January 2012 09:43:52PM 3 points [-]

Cool. Would I still be a person while in a coma that I will naturally come out of in five years but not before? (I recognize that no observer could know that this was the case, I'm just asking whether in fact I would be, if it were. Put another way: after I woke up, would we conclude that I'd been a person all along?)

Comment author: Bakkot 01 January 2012 09:53:41PM 3 points [-]

Obviously this is a difficult question. I'd say you're very nearly a person while in a coma, because with very minor modifications to your brain you could have returned to being a person.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 01 January 2012 09:56:28PM 0 points [-]

OK, cool... that clarifies matters. Thanks.