MrHen comments on How theism works - Less Wrong

51 Post author: ciphergoth 10 April 2009 04:16PM

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Comment author: MrHen 10 April 2009 11:51:54PM 0 points [-]

What is the reason?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 11 April 2009 12:05:46AM 1 point [-]

Because unless the Lords of the Matrix are made of spirit-stuff, having them being mere material beings made out of atoms, just like us only they happen to be the ones in charge of the simulation, does not make for very satisfying theology as long as you're going to just make stuff up anyway.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 12 April 2009 09:12:14PM 3 points [-]

It really is my impression that the Norse Aesir were just like that. You know, they have blood, have children, die, need to eat, etc. Despite that, Odin was involved in creating the (our) universe (Midgard).

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 April 2009 09:14:25PM 1 point [-]

But the Aesir had a sacred dimension that the Matrix Lords would not; they had assigned roles in the scheme of things and not just assumed roles in the scheme of things.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 12 April 2009 09:20:24PM 2 points [-]

Doesn't Agent Smith have an assigned role as a coordinator of the immune system? Doesn't something like fate or game theory ordain that some entity with his characteristics fill that role? Hell, the simulated universe in the Matrix was forced by human nature, e.g. "what's right" while the Norse universe could just as easily have been different and will be after Ragnarok. And of course, to determinist, everything MUST happen and to scientists/Humeans everything does happen for a reason, even if the reason is "the quantum coin flip comes up both ways. It inevitably progressed to a world where you saw it come up heads and one where you saw tails and in both of those worlds, to you asking this question and my giving this answer.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 19 January 2010 02:18:17PM 1 point [-]

If anyone started talking about Agent Smith just filling the ordained and necessary role as the coordinator of the immune system, then they would have invented the Matrix religion. That is, once you have divinely ordained roles, you have a religion, whether or not there's a postulated divinity to do the divine ordaining.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 20 January 2010 07:49:41PM *  0 points [-]

You just invented Ken Wilbur's Blue developmental stage, which he and I agree was not reached by humans until the last 3000 or so years. The earliest religions, like the Egyptian one, clearly didn't have this. Neither does Silmarilianism (Valarism? )BTW.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 21 January 2010 07:18:17AM *  0 points [-]

Ken Wilber, with an e; a list of colors that doesn't seem terribly helpful. Does the axial age fit in?

The Valar are like norse gods, but Eru Iluvatar is like the christian god. I think the mythology of the Silmarillion fits Eliezer's comment. I'm not sure how much Wilber cares about mythology, though; I suspect you're responding to a gestalt sense of the practice of religion by numenoreans, elves, or the men of Gondor, which may not match the mythology.

Comment author: Carinthium 14 November 2010 03:35:55AM 0 points [-]

Technically, the Matrix Lords might have been assigned roles to carry out in the program when it was created by it's initial creator and be programmed to carry them out. (Thus somewhat resembling religion)

Comment author: Carinthium 14 November 2010 03:34:59AM 0 points [-]

On the other hand, wouldn't trying to in some way (if possible) please the Lords of the Matrix and secure rewards be highly desirable if possible? In some possible Matrix-like situations, cult-like devotion might actually be rational.