Will_Newsome comments on Request for input: draft of my "coming out" statement on religious deconversion - Less Wrong
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Sorry, yeah, it's not a real thing. "Modal" means like replacing the "amen"s with "or so we seem to have been led to believe"s or "or so it seems wise to endorse as true even though what's going on behind the scenes is largely some really tricky game theory that we're forced for pragmatic reasons to pretend doesn't exist"s. If Vladimir_M takes his Catholicism seriously, which I doubt, then it's likely the same kind kind of Catholic that he is. (I admit to trying to troll Vladimir_M into talking about Catholicism with this comment.)
From what I know of Vladimir_M, to the extent he's a Catholic, he believe Catholicism is intersubjectively true. He doesn't take simulation hypothesis/accusal trade/SL5 type arguments all that seriously if that's what you're asking.
Extant should be extent.
Sorry, these things bother me.
Thanks, fixed.
That sounds right. I think I'm what you'd get if you took Vladimir_M's views on hermeneutics but with a perspective on metaphysics that saw them as potentially actually correct rather than acting almost-without-exception as convenient Schelling focal points.
One big difference is that you want to immanentize the eschaton going so far as to invoke actual theology, whereas Vladimir_M would probably he extremely skeptical of such attempts, and quiet frankly so would I.
(I don't want to as such, it's more that I'm extremely afraid of the potential consequences of not doing so.)
I'm also afraid of the consequences of attempting to given how well previous attempts have gone.
(ETA: Deleted paragraph comparing myself to Hitler because apparently that sort of thing is easily misunderstood or something.)
If you think my trying to immanentize the eschaton has a decent chance of being seen in retrospect as obviously evil and retarded, then I'm morally obligated to pester you to see whether the outside view of inside view makes more sense here. But perhaps we should continue this in another venue, if you'd like. I find it to be a very interesting topic, and also very important to what I do with my life.
ETA: In the meantime I'll read Ride the Tiger by Julius Evola.
Why Julius Evola? If you're trying to figure out whether to immanentize the eschaton you might want to look at Eric Voegelin.
Huh. What, then, do you believe when it comes to a deity? I may have misread this comment, but it strikes me as saying that you're Catholic for pragmatic/social reasons?
Put another way: what of Catholic doctrine counts as as "largely some really tricky game theory" and what counts as actually true?
I'm not actually Catholic, only a prospective Catholic, and it's very possible that I'll never get around to actually getting confirmed; it seems like it would be consenting to the categorical rule of propping up institutions even when you're still rather unsure of how good they are compared to how good you should have expected them to be. I grew up agnostic and at some point identified as atheist, only converting to theism and gaining interest in religions besides Theravada Buddhism after I became a postrationalist one or two years ago; I haven't had enough time since then to come to any firm conclusions about the justification or lack thereof for converting to a particular religion.
Oh, gosh. Um.
Those are what stand out to me as the most obvious possible points of agreement or disagreement with Catholic doctrine as straightforwardly interpreted, but I might've missed some big stuff.
Have you talked about any of these ideas with any actual high rationality Catholics?
Somehow I get the impression that they wouldn't agree with your interpretation.
Any of them? How familiar are you with the more philosophically apt and open-minded Church authorities? Are there so few that it'd be impossible to get even a little traction? (I'm thinking a few years down the line when the "save the world" memeplex is better established.)
As far as Catholics you might be interested in talking to, there's John C. Wright. I assume you are familiar with his background.