LucasSloan comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 11 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Oscar_Cunningham 17 March 2012 09:41AM

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Comment author: LucasSloan 23 March 2012 05:06:29AM *  15 points [-]

Point in favor of this all being a plot by Quirrell to cause Harry to be more willing to overthrow the ministry:

But by then he'd already declared war on the country of magical Britain, and the idea of other people calling him a Dark Lord no longer seemed important one way or another.

ETA: Evidence this is the result of Quirrell's plotting at all:

Harry's mind flashed back to another day of horror, and even though Harry had been on the verge of writing off Lord Voldemort's continued existence as the senility of an old wizard, it suddenly seemed horribly and uniquely plausible that the entity who'd Memory-Charmed Hermione was the very same mind that had - made use of - Bellatrix Black. The two events had a certain signature in common. To choose that this should happen, plan for this to happen - it would take more than evil, it would take emptiness.

Comment author: DanArmak 23 March 2012 02:00:23PM 7 points [-]

Harry is naive. Why not assume that many people can be this non-empathetic? It's a useful quality to have, after all.

Comment author: hairyfigment 25 March 2012 02:57:15AM 1 point [-]

Because it also requires competence? I don't actually know what a world with many super-competent villains would look like, but I'm guessing 'Not like this'.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 23 March 2012 12:19:59PM 7 points [-]

To choose that this should happen, plan for this to happen - it would take more than evil, it would take emptiness.

I'm trying to figure out what the heck that even means.

I sure hope Harry doesn't make a habit of deducing plot points - such as "Voldemort did it" here - from such vague moralipsychologising.

Comment author: Daniel_Starr 23 March 2012 12:35:54PM 13 points [-]

Harry's suggesting that Voldemort's tactics involve not just hate but an incredible degree of cynicism.

Both "Make Bella love you despairingly, on purpose" and "Mess with Hermione's brain intimately over a long period of time" reflect a person who can get to know people closely and accurately and yet not care about them at all.

A lot of evil comes from people doing bad things to people they don't bother to think about in the first place. Voldemort clearly took the trouble to get to know Bellatrix and (somewhat) Hermione rather well - solely for the purposes of undermining them.

Some police trained as hostage-situation snipers find they can't actually pull the trigger on real criminals, because they watch them so long and so closely they empathize with them. Draco Malfoy, in the fic, was coming to empathize with Hermione Granger.

Harry is observing that Voldemort seems to be immune to natural empathy, and that creeps him out.

(Agree that Harry having "Voldemort plot detection powers" as a general rule would be bizarre.)

Comment author: razor11 23 March 2012 06:06:05PM 3 points [-]

Harry doesn't know whether whoever framed Hermione knew her closely or not. He knew that her mind was probably tampered with on several different occasions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the criminal interacted with her on a regular basis, or enough to empathize with her. Otherwise I think he would have considered Quirell as a lead suspect early on.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 23 March 2012 01:01:20PM *  1 point [-]

Good reply.

I'll note, however, that to me the word "evil" means what you're talking about. If we're talking about "evil' as a character trait, that is, someone being an evil person. When you say "A lot of evil comes from people doing bad things to people they don't bother to think about in the first place", I assume you're talking about "evil" as in "harm done", which is not the same thing.

Comment author: dspeyer 29 March 2012 05:04:58PM -2 points [-]

Voldemort isn't the only empty one.

Quirell "cannot say that I bothered keeping count" of "how many different people" he is. Surely he has an empty persona. It's useful.

Comment author: anandjeyahar 23 March 2012 04:19:09PM 0 points [-]

This also reminds of what he says to Hermione after she saves him from dementation. "The place where the dementor takes you there's no light. But you can't ever be happy, you can't even remember what it is that isn't there anymore." the second part sounds a lot like emptiness to me.