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Konkvistador comments on The Power of Reinforcement - Less Wrong
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You should reread it. Compare to the original. Consider what emotions you or the average person reading these two two experiences.
Then consider why I would point that difference out.
The "American husband" version is the only one I had a strong emotional reaction to, because I think in popular culture "training" a husband to behave is much more common than the mirror version. Was that your intent?
(In fact, I had to tell myself that if I were in the husband's place I would probably approve of getting into the habit of picking up dirty clothes, enough to get past the condescension involved.)
My intent was to point out that the husband version is usually taken as acceptable while the wife version is mostly not. Like I said I did expect many people on LessWrong to have different intuitions, this is why I invoked the mythical average person.
Ah the good old though experiment, what would we do without it?
I can't wait until someone casually dismisses PUA/game as unethical or manipulative.
Don't worry they have a back up plan. Someone just has to bring up the "negging" straw man. It dosen't matter in their minds that most PUAs don't teach that any more because newbies tend to mess it up.
"Deliberately behaving attractively is Rape!"
It's comparatively easy to start a flame war on that subject. I've argued against both sides at times, when their respective extremists started saying ridiculous things.
I'm rather frustrated because people refuse to believe that negging is a rather minor part of some approaches to PUA. When done right its playful teasing. This is why I brought it up.
I suspect that, speaking literally, they do not refuse to believe that, and that you're disagreeing about something else.
Actually David DeAngelo (the only PUA from which I've read a non-negligible amount of stuff) makes ‘cocky and funny’ the central point of his technique, IIRC.
Which, given that you have read a non-negligible amount of his stuff, you would know does not mean the same thing as negging (although you can do the latter while being the former if it happens to be appropriate). The "actually" is non-sequitur.
(I don't remember him using the word “neg”, actually -- but it's been years since I read him.)
I think I remember that. Weren't you replying to yourself over and over again taking different sides?
Not that I recall, but if I did it sounds kind of amusing. :)
“Negging” means jokingly insulting someone? And that's bad? I do that all the time, what an awful person I am. And that's supposed to lower people's self-esteem? (Gawd, are they that brittle?) And that's in turn supposed to make them more likely to sleep with me? (Huh, that doesn't seem to be working with me.)
Huh? The only difference is that the genders are switched AFAICT... Maybe I would sense a difference if a stereotypically masculine task (i.e. washing the car) or a stereotypically feminine one (i.e. doing the laundry) was substituted for throwing dirty clothes into the hamper, but this is something that each spouse is supposed to do with their own clothes, so the situation is symmetrical... or what am I missing?
ETA: this is about the emotions I experience reading the two stories. I won't guess about ‘the average person’ because I'm well aware that such guesses are very unreliable.
What you're missing is that many people will respond to the gender-swapped version differently, and Konk is calling attention to that fact.