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TheOtherDave comments on The Power of Reinforcement - Less Wrong
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Comments (467)
I agree that asking you about your kids solely to change your behavior is manipulative.
I also agree that it's insincere. (Which is an entirely distinct thing.)
I would also say that asking you about your kids solely to be polite is insincere.
I would not agree that any of these are necessarily unethical.
I am not quite sure what you mean by "ethically damaging advice."
I agree with you that it's not always unethical to positively reinforce others without their knowledge.
I would agree that "Positively reinforcing others without their knowledge is a good thing to do, do it constantly" is advice that, if taken seriously, would often lead me to perform unethical acts. I can accept calling it unethical advice for that reason, I suppose.
But I also think that "Positively reinforcing others without their knowledge is a bad thing to do, never do it." is unethical advice in the same (somewhat unclear) sense.
I agree that behaviors that depend on others' ignorance are often also bad behaviors.
Behaviors that depend on others' knowledge are also often bad behaviors.
Agreed on all counts. In fact, it doesn't look like we disagree at all, judging from your comment.
Oh good!
When you started out by saying "never do this," I concluded otherwise.
I'm pleased to discover I was wrong.
Well, I think I'd stand by what I said originally. Though I guess I'm counting on no one reading that as the exceptionless proposition 'for all x such that x is a case of using positive reinforcement without someone's knowledge, x is unethical'. Likewise, if someone asked me, I'd say 'Don't ever shoplift, it's unethical.' Though I wouldn't want or expect anyone to read that as 'all cases of shoplifting are, without exception, unethical.'
OK. I apologize for misunderstanding your original comment.
Quite alright, I've enjoyed the discussion.