randallsquared comments on Framing Consciousness - Less Wrong

-8 Post author: cousin_it 08 May 2009 10:27AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (43)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: randallsquared 08 May 2009 01:17:12PM 0 points [-]

The encoding of a conscious state is not consciousness. Consciousness is the process of successive causally-related conscious states.

Comment author: cousin_it 08 May 2009 01:36:12PM *  0 points [-]

What?? How do you know?

Anyway, if consciousness isn't a "state" but a "process" or "causal" whatever, the whole argument still stands. It doesn't depend one whit on what consciousness is. I just evaluate two possibilities without giving favor to either: either an algorithm can give rise to consciousness, or it can't.

Comment author: randallsquared 08 May 2009 02:05:07PM *  2 points [-]

How do I know what? Defining consciousness this way makes things clearer and easier to discuss, but doesn't actually explain consciousness in any way. I'm advocating a definition, not proving a fact.

You start out talking about algorithms, as you say, but then switch to talking about states of (or produced by) algorithms. A MS Word document is not the instance of MS Word that produced it. [Edit: bad example. Reworded: a snapshot of the state of a computer running MS Word is not, itself, a running instance of MS Word. That's a more precise analogy, but unfortunately more debatable. ;)]

I don't have any objection to the idea that an algorithm can give rise to (I would say "be") consciousness. I do object to the idea that numbers exist in the same sense that matter and energy exist. I am not a Platonist.

Comment author: cousin_it 08 May 2009 02:40:51PM *  0 points [-]

Thanks! Upon some consideration this makes sense, seems to be correct and turns my whole post into nonsense. Namely, consciousness could require physical causality, which falsifies point 3 while keeping simulations possible. Updated the post.

Comment author: MrHen 08 May 2009 01:54:57PM 1 point [-]

What?? How do you know?

Because it's obvious.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)