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bbleeker comments on LW Women: LW Online - Less Wrong
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Hi, I am Berna, and I am a 'people pleaser', a.k.a. a wuss. You're too right, it does mean you're in for a rough time to have this almost pathological need to be liked. Conflict, in any way, shape or form, scares me terribly. I often wish I didn't need to be nice all the time. You know, I really like being nice, but occasionally I'd like to have a choice about it. I'd like to be nice because, well, it's nice, not because I'm scared not to. And yet, I dare to comment on LessWrong sometimes, isn't that amazing?
I am a woman, and until now, I've always thought LW was just fine. Sure, when I comment here, I am even more careful than anywhere else I write, because the standard of writing here is so high. And sometimes, when I write something that I think might in the least be controversial, I wonder if I really don't have time to read LW just now, or is it that I might have gotten downvotes? But that's all about me, it isn't a problem with LW.
LW is a haven of sanity and civility to me. Just compare it to the comments on YouTube, or any news site, the WoW forums... well, just about anywhere on the Internet. I was seriously amazed when I discovered this place a few years ago.
That is high praise. Thank you.
Hi, Berna.
I've asked before "what's so wrong about being judged?", so if you don't mind, I'd like to get you to elaborate on this.
I wonder whether in fact you need to be liked, and whether it's the results of conflict, the conflict itself, or the anticipation of conflict that's so painful. And is it conflict, or judgment?
An Aside
Back to our discussion My guess is that you don't run around town needing to make more and more people like you, so that "needing to be liked" isn't the most accurate expression of your need. Or maybe it is. But one can have conflict with someone one likes, so those are really two different issues.
In fact, that makes a pretty good test case. When you know someone is on your side and likes you, do you still fear conflict with them? What if you already know they dislike you? More fear? Less?
When you send in a post, are you worried about the responses you will receive? If you receive a negative one, does it really upset you? How long do you remain upset? Is it different if the exchange appears to be over, or if ongoing? After the thread is done, does your perception that the person doesn't like you still bother you if you thinj of it weeks later?
I'd like to get a better sense of what the issue really is.
Oh man, those are hard (but good) questions.
I've had this window open for days now, and I'm still not sure how to respond. I think it isn't really conflict I fear, but negative judg(e)ment - rejection of me as a person. (I'll be cast out into the cold and dark forever!)
And I dare to post here, because I think the chance of that is small; people here tend to react to what you actually say, and not to straw men they make up in their minds, like what happened in a newsgroup I used to be in long ago. Someone posted something, and I thought that could be misinterpreted, so I posted something along the lines of "someone could interpret what you say like [blabla]", and they (and someone else) responded like I'd written \"I* think you [blabla]". They made it clear they thought I was a horrible person for writing that, and I felt so crushed I didn't even attempt to correct their impression, thinking it'd probably just make things even worse, and I just left that group - I could have continued reading it without posting, but I was too ashamed.
Writing this now, I feel ashamed too. No doubt you all think I'm a pathetic loser, and the only reason I'm not downvoted into negative karma is because most people don't even care enough to click the downvote button. (Please don't hit me, I'm down already!)
So whenever I post here, I feel scared and ashamed (more or less, depending on how controversial I think it is). And then I usually feel relieved, when I see people don't hate me but just disagree with me. Or even give me upvotes! Yay! :-)
And I know, your next question is going to be why I would feel ashamed. After all, I did my best, and if someone misinterprets me, all I did wrong was to not write clearly enough. Dunno. I guess my subconscious thinks that where there is smoke, there is fire. If I write something so bad that it makes people hate/dislike me, then it must have been a bad thing to say, and I must be bad for even thinking of it...
suddenly gets it
So THAT'S what they were talking about!
EDIT: wait, some people don't join the community because of that?
Well, Yvain of all people said he doesn't post very much because of that...
(For example, would this discussion be worse if your comment was absent or crafted more carefully?)
My point was that I have had similar experiences, but didn't realize it at first because it didn't stop me joining. I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but I'm guessing you're complaining my comment was meaningless/poorly written?