Lukas_Gloor comments on Arguments Against Speciesism - Less Wrong

28 Post author: Lukas_Gloor 28 July 2013 06:24PM

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Comment author: Lukas_Gloor 28 July 2013 08:59:19PM *  4 points [-]

No, this is indeed a common feature of coherentist reasoning, you can make it go both ways. I cannot logically show that you are making a mistake here. I may however appeal to shared intuitions or bring further arguments that could encourage you to reflect on your views.

And note that I was silent on the topic of killing, the point I made later in the article was only focused on caring about suffering. And there I think I can make a strong case that suffering is bad independently of where it happens.

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 28 July 2013 09:00:41PM 0 points [-]

And here I think I can make a strong case that suffering is bad independently of where it happens.

I would very much like to see that case made!

Comment author: Lukas_Gloor 28 July 2013 09:17:12PM 3 points [-]

It's in the article. If you're not impressed by it then I'm indeed out of arguments.

Furthermore, while D and E seem plausible candidates for reasons against killing a being with these properties (E is in fact Peter Singer's view on the matter), none of the criteria from A to E seem relevant to suffering, to whether a being can be harmed or benefitted. The case for these being bottom-up morally relevant criteria for the relevance of suffering (or happiness) is very weak, to say the least.

Maybe that's the speciesist's central confusion, that the rationality/sapience of a being is somehow relevant for whether its suffering matters morally. Clearly, for us ourselves, this does not seem to be the case. If I was told that some evil scientist would first operate on my brain to (temporarily) lower my IQ and cognitive abilities, and then torture me afterwards, it is not like I will be less afraid of the torture or care less about averting it!

There's also a hyperlink in the first paragraph referring to section 6 of the linked paper.

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 28 July 2013 09:26:55PM 0 points [-]

Ok. Yeah, I don't find any of those to be strong arguments. Again, I would like to urge you to consider and address the points brought up in this post.

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