nshepperd comments on The genie knows, but doesn't care - Less Wrong

54 Post author: RobbBB 06 September 2013 06:42AM

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Comment author: XiXiDu 05 September 2013 09:07:20AM *  1 point [-]

I do not reject that step 10 does not follow if you reject that the AI will not "care" to learn what it is meant to do. But I believe there to be good reasons for an AI created by humans to care.

If you assume that this future software does not care, can you pinpoint when software stops caring?

1. Present-day software is better than previous software generations at understanding and doing what humans mean.

2. There will be future generations of software which will be better than the current generation at understanding and doing what humans mean.

3. If there is better software, there will be even better software afterwards.

4. ...

5. Software will be superhuman good at understanding what humans mean but catastrophically worse than all previous generations at doing what humans mean.

What happens between step 3 and 5, and how do you justify it?

My guess is that you will write that there will not be a step 4, but instead a sudden transition from narrow AIs to something you call a seed AI, which is capable of making itself superhuman powerful in a very short time. And as I wrote in the comment you replied to, if I was to accept that assumption, then we would be in full agreement about AI risks. But I reject that assumption. I do not believe such a seed AI to be possible and believe that even if it was possible it would not work the way you think it would work. It would have to aquire information about what it is supposed to do, for pratical reasons.

Comment author: nshepperd 05 September 2013 12:17:29PM 15 points [-]

Present day software is a series of increasing powerful narrow tools and abstractions. None of them encode anything remotely resembling the values of their users. Indeed, present-day software that tries to "do what you mean" is in my experience incredibly annoying and difficult to use, compared to software that simply presents a simple interface to a system with comprehensible mechanics.

Put simply, no software today cares about what you want. Furthermore, your general reasoning process here—define some vague measure of "software doing what you want", observe an increasing trend line and extrapolate to a future situation—is exactly the kind of reasoning I always try to avoid, because it is usually misleading and heuristic.

Look at the actual mechanics of the situation. A program that literally wants to do what you mean is a complicated thing. No realistic progression of updates to Google Maps, say, gets anywhere close to building an accurate world-model describing its human users, plus having a built-in goal system that happens to specifically identify humans in its model and deduce their extrapolated goals. As EY has said, there is no ghost in the machine that checks your code to make sure it doesn't make any "mistakes" like doing something the programmer didn't intend. If it's not programmed to care about what the programmer wanted, it won't.

Comment author: FeepingCreature 06 September 2013 07:38:45PM *  5 points [-]

A program that literally wants to do what you mean is a complicated thing. No realistic progression of updates to Google Maps, say, gets anywhere close to building an accurate world-model describing its human users, plus having a built-in goal system that happens to specifically identify humans in its model and deduce their extrapolated goals.

Is it just me, or does this sound like it could grow out of advertisement services? I think it's the one industry that directly profits from generically modelling what users "want"¹and then delivering it to them.

[edit] ¹where "want" == "will click on and hopefully buy"

Comment author: XiXiDu 22 January 2014 09:50:00AM 0 points [-]

Present day software is a series of increasing powerful narrow tools and abstractions.

Do you believe that any kind of general intelligence is practically feasible that is not a collection of powerful narrow tools and abstractions? What makes you think so?

Put simply, no software today cares about what you want.

If all I care about is a list of Fibonacci numbers, what is the difference regarding the word "care" between a simple recursive algorithm and a general AI?

Furthermore, your general reasoning process here—define some vague measure of "software doing what you want", observe an increasing trend line and extrapolate to a future situation—is exactly the kind of reasoning I always try to avoid, because it is usually misleading and heuristic.

My measure of "software doing what you want" is not vague. I mean it quite literally. If I want software to output a series of Fibonacci numbers, and it does output a series of Fibonacci numbers, then it does what I want.

And what other than an increasing trend line do you suggest would be a rational means of extrapolation, sudden jumps and transitions?

Comment author: Juno_Watt 12 September 2013 03:11:47PM -1 points [-]

Present day software may not have got far with regard to the evaluative side of doing what you want, but the XiXiDu's point seems to be that it is getting better at the semantic side. Who was it who said the value problem is part of the semantic problem?