Luke_A_Somers comments on Tell Culture - Less Wrong

109 Post author: BrienneYudkowsky 18 January 2014 08:13PM

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Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 18 January 2014 08:52:25PM 2 points [-]

Tell culture seems pretty close to ask culture. I think guess culture is superior to both of them, even though guessing can go too far sometimes, obviously. (I should tell (!) you though that I am a guesser by inclination/personality so I might be doing motivated cognition).

In my view, the defences of both ask and tell culture are based on a defect picture of human cognition. You more or less always imply things by asking them or telling them things. The reason for this is that there are so many things you could ask and so many things you could tell so that by asking or telling someone something you are thereby implying that this is a reasonable thing to tell/ask. In many cases, it is not. Tellers/askers seem to think that we can somehow magically do away with those implications. The situations is analogous to those who think that we can define our words any way we like. As Yudkowsky pointed out in some post, in defining a word in a certain way, we are thereby implying that the definiens is important. These ideas are both old-style rationalist ideas. We ought to know by now that our minds don't function in that way but that we're always looking for implications from all kinds of actions.

My guess is that while many people would like to be able to ask others whatever they like or tell other whatever they like, they don't like when others do the same to them. But that's just a hunch.

It would seem to me that the guess vs ask distinction is pretty close to the previously discussed wait vs interrupt culture. In a wait culture people typically have to guess whether others think they've spoken for too long. Interrupters on the other hand tend to be more direct askers.

One reason to be suspicious of interrupt/ask cultures is that (I'm speculating here) countries with these cultures seem to be doing worse in other areas. Eg in Europe Northerners have a wait/guess culture and are doing better on all sorts of metrics than pushier Eastern and Southern Europeans. I think the common cause for this is that there is more of mutual trust and respect in Northern Europe, something that leads to more guessing/waiting but also to less corruption and all sorts of other positive effects.

I realize this last argument is not a knock-down argument for guess culture but prima facie it seems to me to have some force.

Comment author: David_Gerard 20 January 2014 01:10:23PM *  3 points [-]

My guess is that while many people would like to be able to ask others whatever they like or tell other whatever they like, they don't like when others do the same to them. But that's just a hunch.

I have frequently noticed that when geeks advocate untrammelled honesty in communication, they mean sending it; the same geeks reliably hit the roof when they receive it.

Relevant post: Defecting by Accident - A Flaw Common to Analytical People

Comment author: Stefan_Schubert 20 January 2014 04:26:43PM 1 point [-]

There is a Seinfeld episode that sort of comments on this - George tells a woman "the truth" (on her request), but he isn't too pleased when Elaine does the same (on his request):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXliXJSDPvg