lessdazed comments on How to Convince Me That 2 + 2 = 3 - Less Wrong

52 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 27 September 2007 11:00PM

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Comment author: Desrtopa 28 July 2011 04:55:00AM *  8 points [-]

I'm going to go ahead and offer a differing opinion regarding Christianity. o_o; First of all, much of the "God is vile and insane" protest can be mitigated by remembering that, if the Christian God exists, then this life is a tiny piece of our entire existence, and that death is far from the worst possible outcome. If you try to justify the Christian God's ethics based on conclusions you've reached by disbelieving in Him, your premises are contradictory.

If you try to justify the Christian God's ethics based on the bible's own assertions of his justice and infallibility, your argument is circular. Conclusions based on belief or disbelief in God are irrelevant to judging his morality according to the portrait painted in holy texts, we already have our own moral toolkit to work with.

I don't see how it remotely mitigates any charges of vileness or insanity to posit that God hands out rewards of eternal bliss or punishments of eternal suffering for beliefs and/or actions without making his expectations clear. That's negligence beyond the scale of criminality. No matter how sure you are that you understand what God wants, if he had actually made his message clear and well evidenced, your beliefs would not be a minority worldwide. Any intelligent and competent human who wanted to get a coherent message across could do better. Hell, scholars have better agreement on what Nietzsche meant, and he was being deliberately obscure.

Comment author: lessdazed 28 July 2011 11:13:04AM 4 points [-]

Conclusions based on belief or disbelief in God are irrelevant to judging his morality according to the portrait painted in holy texts

As morality is entangled with reality, (incorrect) conclusions about anything are potentially relevant to judging morality.

I don't see how it remotely mitigates any charges of vileness or insanity

I wonder how readily believers would, in a sort of plea bargain, accept and embrace the charge of insanity, with all its connotations, if it were thought the obviously attractive horn of the dilemma, with no other alternatives.

I'm imagining what religious institutions and literature would look like if, say, one out of every ten adjectives referring to a deity in hymns, psalms, etc. were replaced with "insane" or one of its synonyms.

Comment author: Arandur 28 July 2011 06:25:08PM 1 point [-]

snerk I'm sad to say that the answer is "rather readily, for some". I've gotten into heated debates - heated because they ended with me throwing my hands up in the air, appalled at the willing ignorance of my opponent - about whether God follows the same basic rules of logic that we do. It's astonishing. I'm sure if you were to start a Protestant movement saying that "God is insane, but we follow Him anyway", you'd get followers by the truckload.

By Occam's razor, we must conclude that the basic tenants of logic we have in this life will not cease to be true in the next. Then again, Occam's razor depends on Occam's razor for its veracity... :3 If you wanna talk about circular arguments.

And I agree with your statement re: incorrect conclusions; thank you.

EDIT: Man, this 10-minute lag is killing me. O_o;