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Lauryn comments on How to Convince Me That 2 + 2 = 3 - Less Wrong
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Hello, I'm a Christian. And, yes, I'm also a rationalist gasp!. I was born and raised a Christian, and I honestly am not sure if I would believe, say, Budhism if I was raised that way- My gut answer is 'No', but I cannot really be sure, as I would be a completely different person. There's no way no one can truthfuly say yes or no for sure to that question.
Right, anyways, I do have reasons I would stop believing... There are a couple very specific situations that pop to mind in which I would be convinced that my whole life has been a lie: 1. The apocalypse happens in a fashion other than is predicted in Revelations (In parts of it that seem strictly factual, not symbolic)- Such as a Zombie Apocalypse with no Second Coming from the clouds. 2. Humans eliminating death- In Revelations, people die, so if that stopped being an option, well... 3. Time travel (Yes, really- it's only a little less plausible than your reasons, no offense).
Edit: Also, welcome to Less Wrong. Sorry, politeness should have come first.
Really...that's all you mean when you say I'm a Christian? Do you just mean "The book of Revelation is true, we'll never completely defeat death, and time travel is impossible?" In that case, probably even a lot of people here agree with 2/3 of that.
I assume the answer to the first question is "no". In that case, please explain more of what you mean by calling yourself a Christian. That will open up more ground for a serious discussion, if you actually do want to change your mind if it is the case that Christianity is false.
Well, I should have specified- those are the first examples that jumped to mind. I mean a whole lot more by saying that I am a Christian, I suppose I would define it as I believe that all the Bible says is true- that God created the universe, Jesus is our Saviour, and we exist to glorify God (I know, cached thought, but that one I have thought about.).
I really do mean that I do not want to believe in anything that is wrong, but I have yet to see anything that is definitive evidence that my beliefs are incorrect. (And I also admit that I do not want to give up my current beliefs, and I'm going to be heavily biased against any information shown me, but I will try.)
Literally, to the last decimal point, or do you make some allowances for figurative language, imprecise measurement and/or unmarked parables?
The problem with going there is that it's easy to go to far, to a point where the Bible isn't true anymore and it's just your interpretation of bits and pieces of the Bible. Anyways, I don't really think of figurative language as something you need to make allowances for, it just is how it was written- and most of the time is fairly obvious too. I've never seen one instance of imprecise measurement, but if you know of one, fire away, and unmarked parables are also fairly easy to spot.
1 Kings 7:23
Yes, true. But it's possible to go too far the other way, too, which causes a lot of problems (see: the creationist movement in America).
2 Corinthians 4:2:
I consider it more probable that the measurement is imprecise than that pi is three for that tank.
I mean, it's a minor detail, but it's there.
That's what I thought, too, but apparently some people take the Garden of Eden literally.
My first question would be, why do you believe in Christianity, specifically, instead of Hinduism, Islam, or something else (like that there are 4 gods, and they created the Earth with 4 seasons)? Why would you say that the Christian God created the universe, rather than saying that you just don't know?
First, from a scientific standpoint, there's a good bit of evidence for creation as is told in the Bible- a flood and all.
And it really isn't anything I can convince you of from there on- reasons such as that it makes sense that we cannot make ourselves good enough, the Bible makes far more sense than the Quaran (which I have read a good bit of), experiences, so on, so forth. And just pure faith, which of course makes no sense to a good atheist like you. (No offense. No offense.)
I have never heard of such evidence. Could you direct me to where to find it? I think the evidence points in the opposite direction. See the Wikipedia article on flood geology, to begin with. If you believe the Earth is under 10000 years old, then you should also read this article, "Is There Really Scientific Evidence for a Young Earth?". It was written by a Christian, and I'd like to point out the following quote from the introduction:
Explain what you mean when you use the phrase, "pure faith".