Comment author:Doug_S.
28 September 2007 04:01:32AM
3 points
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I can imagine a world in which the mathematics we have developed is not useful, or in which commonly assumed axioms are false in that world. However, "The Pythagorean Theorem is a theorem of Euclidean geometry" is still true even if you're living on a sphere. If I say "I cannot be convinced that 2 + 2 = 4", I mean something like "I cannot be convinced that S(S(0)) + S(S(0))) = S(S(S(S(0)))) is not a theorem of Peano arithmetic."

On the religion issue: I'll accept as divine any entity that can consistently reduce the entropy of a closed, isolated system, and will demonstrate this ability on demand. ;)

Comment author:AlexanderRM
19 March 2015 08:47:35PM
*
0 points
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If the entity is manipulating the system, then it's not closed or isolated anymore, is it?
The system of entity+system could be isolated, but to know if the entropy of that was reduced you'd need to know the internal entropy of God. But if he can produce infinite neg-entropy, then his internal entropy is a meaningless concept.

## Comments (390)

OldI can imagine a world in which the mathematics we have developed is not useful, or in which commonly assumed axioms are false in that world. However, "The Pythagorean Theorem is a theorem of Euclidean geometry" is still true even if you're living on a sphere. If I say "I cannot be convinced that 2 + 2 = 4", I mean something like "I cannot be convinced that S(S(0)) + S(S(0))) = S(S(S(S(0)))) is not a theorem of Peano arithmetic."

On the religion issue: I'll accept as divine any entity that can consistently reduce the entropy of a closed, isolated system, and will demonstrate this ability on demand. ;)

*0 points [-]If the entity is manipulating the system, then it's not closed or isolated anymore, is it? The system of entity+system could be isolated, but to know if the entropy of that was reduced you'd need to know the internal entropy of God. But if he can produce infinite neg-entropy, then his internal entropy is a meaningless concept.