MathieuRoy comments on Questions to ask theist philosophers? I will soon be speaking with several - Less Wrong

8 Post author: kokotajlod 26 April 2014 12:46AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (85)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: MathieuRoy 28 April 2014 03:00:44AM 0 points [-]

Nice questions. Could you please explain me how "Matthew 26:39" is related to "Jesus' willingness to die for our sins"?

Comment author: christopherj 29 April 2014 10:07:34PM 0 points [-]

Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

The "cup" is Jesus' crucifixion, and this prayer implies that Jesus would rather not get crucified, but rather it was God's will. I suppose it could be read as Jesus wishing there was a different way to forgive sins.

Philippians 2:8 (ESV) And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

While this could be a reference to Jesus living a sinless life, read literally it implies that Jesus was told to volunteer for the whole crucifixion thing. Note that disobeying God could result in anything from no effect to being condemned to eternal hellfire and perhaps having the entire universe cursed for good measure. But maybe Jesus cheerfully volunteered.

Comment author: fezziwig 30 April 2014 02:49:17PM 2 points [-]

FWIW these questions have standard answers in Christian doctrine: he didn't want to be tortured to death, but he wanted to do God's will more than he not-wanted to be crucified. Part of the point of the story is that you don't have to cheerfully volunteer, you just have to volunteer. It's ok to be sad or afraid.

Comment author: christopherj 10 May 2014 02:35:30PM 0 points [-]

FWIW these questions have standard answers in Christian doctrine: he didn't want to be tortured to death, but he wanted to do God's will more than he not-wanted to be crucified.

Sure, but don't forget that in Christian doctrine Jesus=God. This vastly complicates the issue, God-the-Father demands that God-the-Son die on behalf of the sins of humanity, which God-the-Son doesn't want to do but is willing to do because it's what God-the-Father requires to bring Himself to forgive people and He may have been ordered to as well. I don't know what would happen if God disobeys Himself.