Dagon comments on The Power of Noise - Less Wrong

28 Post author: jsteinhardt 16 June 2014 05:26PM

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Comment author: Dagon 16 June 2014 05:59:32PM 5 points [-]

Replace "adversarial superintelligence" with "adversarial game", and I think you'll get more agreement among the participants. There are plenty of cases where a "mixed strategy" is optimal. Note that this is not noise, and true randomness isn't necessary - it only needs to be unpredictable by the opponent, not necessarily random.

Where you don't have an opponent (or at least one that makes predictions), I'm with Eliezer: noise never helps at a fundamental level.

I do believe that randomness has a place in thinking about problems, and it's easier (for humans) to reason about randomness than insanely-complex deterministic calculations. But that's a problem with the reader of the map, not with the map nor the territory.

Comment author: EHeller 16 June 2014 06:36:12PM 5 points [-]

Where you don't have an opponent (or at least one that makes predictions), I'm with Eliezer: noise never helps at a fundamental level.

There is another case where noise helps- threshold effects. If you have as signal below a threshold, a bit of noise can push the signal up into the detectable region.

Comment author: Cyan 16 June 2014 09:37:49PM 5 points [-]

Do you mean stochastic resonance? If so, good example!

(If not, it's still a good example -- it's just my good example. ;-)

Comment author: [deleted] 17 June 2014 04:26:02PM 4 points [-]

Also, dithering.

Comment author: Cyan 16 June 2014 06:31:32PM *  5 points [-]

I'm with Eliezer: noise never helps at a fundamental level.

To my thinking, this is essentially equivalent to conjecturing that P = BPP, which is plausible but still might be false.

ETA: Didn't read the post before replying to the parent (saw it in the sidebar). Now I see that a good quarter of the post is about P = BPP. Egg on my face!

Comment author: jsteinhardt 17 June 2014 02:07:34AM *  4 points [-]

Where you don't have an opponent (or at least one that makes predictions), I'm with Eliezer: noise never helps at a fundamental level.

Several of my examples did not have opponents. To list three: the bargaining example, the randomized controlled trials example, and P vs. BPP.