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abramdemski comments on A List of Nuances - Less Wrong

31 Post author: abramdemski 10 November 2014 05:02AM

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Comment author: abramdemski 11 November 2014 02:43:54AM *  2 points [-]

I advise something between path 1 and path 2. You fool yourself, saying one thing and doing another; but you legitimatly want to be consistent (because it is more convincing if you are). So, once you observer the inconsistency, you react to it. In the objectivist crowd, this has resulted in honesty about selfish behavior. In the lesswrong crowd, this has more often resulted in the dominance of the idealistic goals which previously served only as signalling.

Actually, in practice, 2 is fairly good signalling! It's a costly sign of commitment to altruism. This is basically the only reason the raltionalist community can socially survive, I guess. :p

3 is also perfectly valid in some sense, although it's much further from the lesswrong aesthetic. But, see A Dialog On Doublethink. And remember the Litany of Gendlin.

4 is also a necessary step I think, to see the magnitude of the problem. :)

The brain fills in a false memory of what you meant without asking for permission.

Reference? This terrifies me if true.

Again: good terror, justified terror.

I don't have a reference, just an observation. I think if you observe you will see that this is true. It also fits with what we hear from stuff like The Apologist and the Revolutionary and prettyrational memes. It makes social sense that we would do this: the best way to fool others into thinking we meant X is to believe it ourselves. This helps us appear to win arguments (or at least save face with a less severe loss) and even more importantly helps us to appear to have the best of intentions behind our actions. So, it makes a whole lot of sense that we would do this.

People who seem not to do it are mostly just more clever about it. However, the more everyone is aware of this, the less people can get away with it. If you want to climb out of the gutter, you have to get your friends interested in climbing out too -- or find friends who already are trying.

(Once you've convinced yourself it's worth doing!)

Comment author: abramdemski 11 November 2014 03:38:58AM *  2 points [-]

People who seem not to do it are mostly just more clever about it.

Hmm. This statement is troublesome because it falls into the category of "I expect you not to see evidence for X in case Y, so here's an excuse ahead of time!" type arguments.

And the rest of the paragraph is an argument that you should not only believe my claim, but convince your friends, too!

How convenient. :p

Comment author: William_Quixote 12 November 2014 01:59:48PM 1 point [-]

I would expect a witch to deny that they were signaling "not-witchness"

Comment author: abramdemski 14 November 2014 08:48:03AM 1 point [-]

I would expect a witch to preemptively accuse herself so that no one else can gain status by doing so.