Salemicus comments on Rationality Quotes Thread March 2015 - Less Wrong

8 Post author: Vaniver 02 March 2015 11:38PM

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Comment author: Salemicus 04 March 2015 02:02:30PM 2 points [-]

Can you think of a counter-example where 1) humans violate our expectations 2) but it is no a social rule or cohesion violation, and do we get angry or not?

I already did give such an example - a short story with a "twist" ending. Such an ending violates our expectations (that's what makes it a "twist") but it doesn't break any social rule, so people often find these amusing, clever, etc. On the other hand, a "twist" ending in a context where there is a social rule against such endings might well make people angry - for example, if the recent movie Exodus: Gods and Kings had ended with the Israelites being drowned in the Red Sea and the Pharoah triumphant, that would no doubt have upset many viewers.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 March 2015 02:26:50PM 0 points [-]

Hmmm... most social rules generally want people to behave in a predictable ways, for various reasons, so they avoid surprises. It seems almost like surprises are only allowed in special cases...

I almost accept your point now, but one objection. A good and a weak soccer teams play a match. Surprisingly, the weaker one wins. It was fair play. Nobody violated a rule. Still the fans of the losing one are angry - at their own team, because how could they let a much weaker team win. Is that a social rule violation that if you are generally better you are never allowed to lose? Or just an expectation violation? Is it more of a bias on the side of fans: their team must have violated to rule to try hard and not be lazy, because they cannot imagine any other explanation?

If you generally agree, I accept your point with a modification: anger is about perceived social rule violation: but people are not perfect judges of social rule violations, there are mistakes made both ways, and tententious, bias-driven mistakes.

Thus, as in my soccer example, sometimes all you see at first is a violated expectation. You see no rule violation. Then you need to figure out why exactly may other people think it is a rule violation. This is not always easy and we don't do it that often, and thus often we just see a violated expectation, and not see how others perceive it as a rule-violation.

Comment author: [deleted] 05 March 2015 08:36:44AM 4 points [-]

I just want to say I am glad to have lost this debate, because it is working. For me. I mean, yesterday I was able to manage my anger better by asking myself questions like "what social rule I think is broken here? Is that a real one or just my wish? If real, a reasonable one?" even when the answer was yes/yes just being conscious of it worked.

I think I will shamelessly steal and apply this idea in discussions where it can be useful. Thanks a lot.