ChristianKl comments on Open Thread, Jun. 15 - Jun. 21, 2015 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: Gondolinian 15 June 2015 12:02AM

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Comment author: ChristianKl 22 June 2015 01:12:14PM 0 points [-]

My point was, it's not a steelman response to pick a deliberately weak foil (and Rand is a quite weak foil as far as movement leaders are concerned).

Do you use "movement leader" synonymous with "guru"? Feymann isn't a movement leader. Do you object to EY wanting to be a movement leader?

I don't think Ayn Rand is a deliberately weak foil. Jim Jones is a deliberately weak foil. I use Ayn Rand because it's the nearest "rational cult" I can think of.

If I would seek for "rational movement" I could also go for New Atheists. Richard Dawkins is a movement leader. On the other hand I wouldn't call him a guru. Would you?

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 22 June 2015 01:44:54PM *  0 points [-]

I use Ayn Rand because it's the nearest "rational cult" I can think of.

Why are you comparing against a negative example, rather than an example to emulate?

I already described what sorts of features of EY's make him a "guru."

Comment author: ChristianKl 22 June 2015 03:46:43PM 0 points [-]

Why are you comparing against a negative example, rather than an example to emulate?

Because you criticise him for being a "guru" and not for not being "XY" (word that describe a positive thing).

That makes it important to understand what you mean with guru and whether you consider someone like Dawkins to be a guru and who you consider to be guru's that aren't "deliberately weak foil".