If it helps to know, extra downvotes your getting specifically in this thread, but not other ones, are coming from me. This comment isn't meant as a glib statement to signal my affective disapproval. I just think this conversation is going nowhere, and think the quality of dialogue is getting worse. I'm downvoting these comments as I would others. I'm commenting so you know why I'm downvoting, and don't cast aspersions at other users.