DanielLC comments on Fundamental Doubts - Less Wrong

24 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 July 2008 05:21AM

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Comment author: DanielLC 30 June 2012 04:51:27AM -1 points [-]

We do need to hypothesize why Morpheus doesn't understand the laws of thermodynamics.

Then again, Morpheus could be lying. Perhaps the question is why he thought Neo would believe a statement involving a violation of thermodynamics. For that matter, maybe the question is why Morpheus told Neo an obvious lie.

Comment author: shokwave 30 June 2012 05:22:20AM 1 point [-]

Shortly after we see Neo trained to ignore the laws of physics - jumping, karate, etc. I took it to be preparation for that.

Comment author: DanielLC 30 June 2012 06:36:07AM -1 points [-]

But he's doing it in the Matrix. It's like telling someone that there's life after death, to prepare them for extra lives in a video game.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 30 June 2012 05:44:41AM 1 point [-]

I don't see any reason why Morpheus should understand the laws of thermodynamics.

That said, I remember reading years ago someone's suggestion for how to make that scene much better:
Morpheus: yadda yadda utterly ridiculous explanation
Neo: But that makes no friggin' sense! It can't work that way!
M: And why is that?
N: It violates the laws of thermodynamics!
M: And you learned about those laws where?
N: In the -- oooh.
M: (nods sagely) They are subtle.

Comment author: DanielLC 30 June 2012 06:37:40AM -1 points [-]

I don't see any reason why Morpheus should understand the laws of thermodynamics.

It's not just Morpheus. If anyone in Zion understands it, they know that that's not why the machines are really keeping people. If nobody in Zion understands it, then how are they building working machines?

Comment author: mwengler 01 July 2012 01:05:11AM 2 points [-]

If you know ANYTHING about building working machines, you should know that most of the people that build them have no clues about the laws of thermodynamics.

Engineering is much more a respecter of intuition and trial and error than it is of theories.

One would expect a culture of a very limited number of free humans going up against a vastly materially and intelligently superior enemy to be primarily a raiding culture, anyway. Otherwise they haven't a prayer.

Comment author: DanielLC 01 July 2012 04:28:39AM 0 points [-]

How can they be a raiding culture? Who do they raid?

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 02 July 2012 03:32:41AM 1 point [-]

The machines... they steal the machines that can't fight backk, retool them to their purposes. With all the things in the movie that don't make sense, that part does.

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 30 June 2012 06:47:26AM 5 points [-]

I remember reading years ago someone's suggestion for how to make that scene much better

You may be thinking of Eliezer Yudkowsky's 2008 post "Fundamental Doubts"; scroll up or select the "View the original post" link above. Best wishes, the Less Wrong Reference Desk

Comment author: TheOtherDave 30 June 2012 02:06:26PM 0 points [-]
  • hangs head in embarrassment *

Thanks!

Comment author: gwern 30 June 2012 06:26:32PM *  5 points [-]

Which re-appeared in Methods of Rationality years later as 'WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD': http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/64/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality

...MORPHEUS: The machines tell elegant lies.

(Pause.)

NEO (in a small voice): Could I please have a real physics textbook?

MORPHEUS: There is no such thing, Neo. The universe doesn't run on math.

Comment author: mwengler 01 July 2012 01:06:31AM 0 points [-]

This is the first comment I have ever wanted to upvote multiple times.