michael_vassar3 comments on Rebelling Within Nature - Less Wrong

23 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 13 July 2008 12:32PM

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Comment author: michael_vassar3 13 July 2008 03:33:35PM 8 points [-]

"Physiologically adult humans are not meant to spend an additional 10 years in a school system; their brains map that onto "I have been assigned low tribal status". And so, of course, they plot rebellion"

Of course

"- accuse the existing tribal overlords of corruption - plot perhaps to split off their own little tribe in the savanna, not realizing that this is impossible in the Modern World. "

It was possible pretty recently. Sounds like a good description of the rural side of the 60s counter-culture. Wouldn't be too far from truth to say that they *did* split off their own little tribes in the VAST and EMPTY savanna that's still around, and then got crushed by a mix of the larger tribe that they had been part of, their own schismatic tendencies and bad theories of tribal organization, and other tougher 'outsider' tribes such as outlaw biker gangs.

Comment author: Clarity 23 February 2016 02:19:13PM 0 points [-]

"Physiologically adult humans are not meant to spend an additional 10 years in a school system; their brains map that onto "I have been assigned low tribal status". And so, of course, they plot rebellion"

actually, that's news to me. It sounds convincing, and is quite sad.

Biker gangs really are fascinating. It seems impossible for a 'good' or hygiene conscious to penetrate unless you have a substantial organisation behind you (like a police or intelligence force to coordinate fake hits and such).

Once officially made a prospect, the biker becomes the butt of jokes and is expected to do grunt work like cleaning and guarding bikes, while patch-wearing members throw parties. When an OMG holds or attends biker events, prospects are often sent to do advance work. While a prospect, candidates are given leather vests similar to the ones worn by members, but the club’s seal is left off the vest. It isn’t until a prospect becomes a member does he get to wear the club’s patch, which members hold sacred.

The prospect period is designed to make candidates show their loyalty to the club, which often includes committing crimes and participating in violent behavior. Today’s outlaw biker gangs are involved in a wide range of crimes, officials say. While they’ve stuck with traditional moneymakers like drugs, firearms and extortion, they are starting to get involved in things like human trafficking, prostitution and even white-collar crimes like counterfeiting and money laundering. Prospects are a part of all of it—and violence is often expected by the gang.

Jay Dobyns, a former Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms special agent, infiltrated the Hells Angels in the early 2000s by posing as a gunrunner from a Tijuana-based gang, the Solos Angeles. He was introduced to members of the Hells Angels by a Solos Angeles member who was arrested by ATF agents on weapons charges and agreed to become a cooperating witness. Dobyns was never a prospect—because he supposedly was a member of a different gang. Instead, he was attempting to “patch in” to the Hells Angels, which allows a candidate to forgo the humiliating prospect phase.

Dobyns’ gained acceptance into the Hells Angels by murder—although, nobody actually died.

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