ScentOfViolets comments on The Comedy of Behaviorism - Less Wrong

12 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 August 2008 08:42PM

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Comment author: ScentOfViolets 03 August 2008 03:53:48PM 0 points [-]

No doubt there is also a privileged historical reference as well. Angels? Disembodied souls? Positively medieval. Dualism? A bit dressier, but still discredited. Free will? That's something still being disputed, but the free will of modernists is not the free will bandied about half a millenia ago. That seems to be yet another convenient myth. So how about consciousness and 'internal' states? I could see quite easily a future where the 'consciousness' of the late 22nd century is not the consciousness of today. This is not too far from modern consciousness being a relatively new historical phenomenon ala Jaynes, btw. And points to the difficulty of acquiring evidence that such is the case; the absence of fossilized remains being something of a hindrance.

Comment author: false_vacuum 26 September 2010 12:51:57PM 0 points [-]

This presumably refers to Julian Jaynes and The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. (I haven't read it; I was sure until I checked that Dennett discussed it extensively in Darwin's Dangerous Idea, but I can't find such a discussion now, and thus have no idea why I know about it.)

Comment author: Morendil 26 September 2010 01:21:01PM 0 points [-]

Dennett touches on it (IIRC) in Consciousness Explained, maybe that's where you remember it from...

Comment author: false_vacuum 26 September 2010 02:25:39PM 0 points [-]

Jaynes is first mentioned on p. 221 of Consciousness Explained, and I haven't got that far yet. I'm really rather perplexed about this; I have a distinct memory of reading about Jaynes' bicameral mind, in some detail, in something by Dennett (around the same time I was reading Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, oddly enough--which was late last fall, I think). The slight reference in DDI that I can find almost certainly wouldn't have been enough to prompt me to look it up (although I looked up and learned about a lot of things as a result of reading that book).

Comment author: ciphergoth 26 September 2010 04:13:30PM 0 points [-]

Jaynes also gets a mention in Breaking the Spell.

Comment author: gwern 26 September 2010 02:08:06PM 0 points [-]

Would you like to read it? I have a (not too great) scan of it.

Comment author: false_vacuum 27 September 2010 05:49:54AM *  0 points [-]

Sorry, didn't see this right away for some reason. Yeah, I think I'd like to read it at some point. And I don't see it on the internet, so I'll take you up on your offer. Could you send a copy to [email address redacted]?

Comment author: gwern 27 September 2010 12:59:17PM 1 point [-]
Comment author: false_vacuum 28 September 2010 08:16:48AM 0 points [-]

Thanks!