michael_vassar comments on No Logical Positivist I - Less Wrong

17 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2008 01:06AM

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Comment author: michael_vassar 04 August 2008 03:12:30PM 4 points [-]

I second Hopefully on criticism of the strawman postmodernist. Honestly, I think that academic disciplines, or even schools, where everyone is completely full of it are extremely rare. There are thoughtful, intelligent, and honest people who frame important and fairly novel ideas in the terminology of sociology, academic feminism, Freudianism, behaviorism, even, math-help-us, Jung. Perfect intellectual honest and intelligence among humans are a chimera, and different disciplines aspire to different approximations thereof by establishing different sorts of standards for esteem and for publication.

As a general summary, I would say that the Enlightenment was, to a large extent, a set of proscriptions regarding what types of questions should and should not be asked, argumentative styles should and should not be used, and hand waves are and are not allowed. Some set of standards is necessary for functional discourse under imperfect honesty, and the Enlightenment standards enabled fruitful conversation among people of merely, perhaps, 70th percentile honesty and 96th percentile intelligence, an AMAZING standard that reshaped history. Sadly, each set of standards disables productive discussion of certain subject matter, and places one's beliefs on ultimately unsound foundations, so re-foundation is ultimately necessary. The more dysfunctional academic disciplines are largely those which try to deal, possibly prematurely, with subject matter for which we lack good honesty enforcing protocols, including subject matter foundational to the Enlightenment subject matter, but for individuals in those disciplines insights are indeed possible and low-hanging fruit are even abundant.

Comment author: MugaSofer 29 April 2013 01:53:37PM -2 points [-]

There are thoughtful, intelligent, and honest people who frame important and fairly novel ideas in the terminology of sociology, academic feminism, Freudianism, behaviorism, even, math-help-us, Jung

Speaking as someone currently being taught some Jung as fact (archetype stuff) and trying desperately not to call anyone out on the BS, I'm both surprised and pleased to hear this.

Please, does anyone know of any important, novel, Jungian ideas? I could really do this some examples of this.