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Kevin92 comments on Interpersonal Entanglement - Less Wrong

44 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 20 January 2009 06:17AM

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Comment author: Kevin92 14 December 2015 10:13:14PM 0 points [-]

Are you suggesting that my scenario would make men look fake or make them all look the same? Because if you can't imagine what I suggested without that happening it implies at least one of two things: 1. I described it poorly. 2. You need a better imagination.

Comment author: Lumifer 14 December 2015 10:19:35PM 1 point [-]

First, I would like to suggest that "using technology to upgrade every man's body" is available right now. People usually call it "going to the gym".

As to whether I need a better imagination, let me quote you Eric Hoffer: When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other.

Comment author: Kevin92 15 December 2015 10:48:21PM *  1 point [-]

The gym is not nearly as powerful as the technology I'm talking about. I'm talking about biotechnology / transhuman technology. Men given the genetic short end of the stick can't reasonably expect to look fit no matter how much they work out, unless they don't have a job or any time consuming responsibilities. And no I'm not a jealous fat guy. I'm not athlete, but I'm in decent shape.

And what I'm talking about here is upgrading the average man's attractiveness so that it's on par with the average woman's attractiveness. Nobody complains that all women look the same. In fact women look very diverse. I'm talking about a scenario where men look as diverse as women do.

Also due to supply and demand, there would be an incentive for men to look diverse to match the diversity of women's desires. A higher supply of Ryan Gosling clones than there is demand for Ryan Gosling clones would create incentives for men to look different from Ryan Gosling.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 December 2015 01:25:08AM *  2 points [-]

The gym is not nearly as powerful as the technology I'm talking about. I'm talking about biotechnology / transhuman technology.

Yes, but the gym has a decisive advantage: it's real and the transhuman technology is imaginary.

Men given the genetic short end of the stick can't reasonably expect to look fit no matter how much they work out

That's flat out false. Men given the genetic short end of the stick cannot be expected to win the Olympics. But just looking fit a very low bar. By the way, the ripped look is mostly a function of low (<10%) body fat, not of how much you lift.

there would be an incentive for men to look diverse to match the diversity of women's desires

Which aren't all that diverse if you're talking about looks.

Comment author: Kevin92 16 December 2015 02:06:26AM *  1 point [-]

Yes, but the gym has a decisive advantage: it's real and the transhuman technology is imaginary.

The transhuman technology is a tentative speculation of what could happen in the future.

Remember this is a forum where people regularly talk about terraforming mars and building dyson spheres, I think speculating about transhumanism is appropriate in that context.

Which aren't all that diverse if you're talking about looks.

I'm unsure about this. My taste in looks for mating partners is very diverse, and I'm only one individual. But then again I'm likely to be an outlier and it would be silly to assume other people are like me. But even if it's true that women don't have diverse tastes, I don't think that means we should throw male individuals under the bus by denying them bodily upgrades just for the sake of "diversity". Imagine going up to Joe Wilson of Boston and saying: "sorry bro, but we're going to keep you fat so we can have diversity."

Comment author: Lumifer 16 December 2015 05:32:08AM *  0 points [-]

The transhuman technology is a tentative speculation of what could happen in the future.

Sure. Since we're imagining things, technology can give you any body you want and it doesn't even have to be human. But that's pretty obvious, so I'm wondering what's the point that you want to make.

we should throw male individuals under the bus by denying them bodily upgrades just for the sake of "diversity"

There are a whole lot of background assumptions here, beyond assuming that body upgrades are available. You are assuming that somebody can allow or deny them. You are assuming that this somebody cares about diversity of body types (in which case they might incentivise you to grow a couple of extra limbs or switch to a radial-symmetry body plan instead of staying fat and flabby, by the way). You are assuming these upgrades are a sufficiently big deal so that you don't want to do one each time you get bored or your girlfriend changes. Etc., etc.

Comment author: Good_Burning_Plastic 16 December 2015 04:12:21AM 0 points [-]

Yes, but the gym has a decisive advantage: it's real and the transhuman technology is imaginary.

In the context of the comment thread about a sci-fi story that's not terribly relevant, though.

Comment author: Good_Burning_Plastic 16 December 2015 05:59:54PM 0 points [-]

Huh, for some reason I was under the impression that this was the comment thread to this other post.