= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
DanielLC comments on Vegetarianism - Less Wrong Discussion
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (165)
This is where the tautology resides. (Perhaps it would be clearer to call it "defining your conclusion" or "circularity"?)
I am ambivalent that we should categorically seek to reduce the suffering of our fellow humans (and ourselves). I am personally moved by most suffering I see, but I recognize that as an emotional response. I am aware of many situations in which suffering is a dramatically positive force, and many in which it is not. I don't like calling things bad, I like calling them bad at X.
I also don't think our justifications for working to minimize the pain of our fellow humans are neurological- and so the biological similarity does not strike me as relevant for many valid approaches to the situation.
The idea that suffering can have positive effects is in no way mutually exclusive with the idea that it is itself bad.
Is there any reason why the suffering of factory-farmed animals would be worth it?
Bacon.
This is to say economics says yes. People's observable behavior indicates that they do consider the process worth it.
It shows that the benefit to the people is greater than the pain to the people. The pain of the pig is ignored. Considering the vast majority of the pain is to the pig, that's a pretty big oversight.
No, it doesn't say anything about pain to humans. It shows that people collectively consider it worth it. That information is valuable when considering questions like:
But, if you could pith the pig painlessly (or engineer pigs that did not suffer while their meat is grown / harvested), then the quality of the bacon would not alter (unless you're a sadist).
The question was 'worth it?', not intrinsically desirable.
I'm sure there is an obligatory link in there somewhere. ;)
Here we're discussing definitions, I think. If you assume suffering is bad a priori, that seems to me to preclude there being (worthwhile) benefits from suffering. I find that difficult to swallow.
And this isn't just "surgery is worth it, even with the pain, but it would be more worth it without the pain"- this is looking at "no pain no gain" situations. Do they exist? I strongly suspect so. (I think many people overestimate how many there are, but that doesn't mean something things aren't better with a sting.)