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FAWS comments on A Rationalist's Account of Objectification? - Less Wrong Discussion

43 Post author: lukeprog 19 March 2011 11:10PM

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Comment author: FAWS 20 March 2011 01:47:48AM 4 points [-]

I have nothing against the concept of privilege, but perhaps the name is unfortunate. Privilege is mostly the state of being able to enjoy the absence of discrimination and similar bullshit against oneself so that one never even has to think about such issues, right? The word makes it sound like it's something bad, something you should feel guilty for, when in fact the only problem is that everyone should get that and many groups don't.

Comment author: Raemon 20 March 2011 01:54:06AM *  0 points [-]

Is there a better name you would use for it? I think it means pretty much what it says it means. Note that the article I linked begins by trying to disassociate privilege from guilt.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 20 March 2011 05:07:35AM 1 point [-]

The conventional name for the concept FAWS described above is 'rights'.

Comment author: Raemon 20 March 2011 05:26:01AM *  2 points [-]

I think there's a distinction. I have the right to vote. If I were black, living in particular areas or time periods, I might still have to worry about whether that right will end up mattering in the real world. I guess I'd say that "privilege" is the word for rights that are not fairly implemented in practice.

(though I don't actually believe in 'rights' as something that exists in the abstract. They're conventions we use because people collectively prefer to have them.)

Comment author: atucker 20 March 2011 04:51:31AM 0 points [-]

I think the concept of privilege is probably important, but I'm male and wouldn't totally know.

Maybe defaultness as an alternative word?

It seems pretty non-loaded to me.

Comment author: Skatche 21 March 2011 12:35:54AM 2 points [-]

I think "defaultness" is altogether too non-loaded. To be in the default (the usual term is "unmarked") category does tend to confer advantage, but not always (for example, "rich" or "upper class" are marked). Privilege refers not only to the advantage enjoyed by certain classes of people over some minorities, but also to the blindness that privileged people tend to have toward the oppression the minorities face. It's called "privilege", rather than just "not-oppression", because treating privilege as unmarked contributes to its invisibility.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 21 March 2011 12:56:03AM 1 point [-]

I will add to this that I frequently make a point of talking about "unexamined privilege" rather than "privilege" when I want to communicate the unmarked nature of it, precisely because the increasingly popular habit of using "privilege" to indicate not only the state of having advantages but the state of being unaware of those advantages causes a lot more confusion than it's worth (e.g., tedious discussions about whether it's preferable to get rid of one's privilege, which with the more confusing unpacking leads to the answer "Well, yes and no.").

Comment author: FAWS 21 March 2011 12:53:09AM 0 points [-]

My impression was that it was enough that you could be blind towards oppression, no actual blindness required, and that you wouldn't stop being privileged just because you became aware of oppression, i. e. that recognition of privilege didn't automatically negate it. Is that wrong?

Comment author: Skatche 21 March 2011 12:59:35AM *  0 points [-]

Er, yes, you're right. Privilege is the advantage enjoyed by the unmarked, or (capacity for) blindness toward oppression. One or the other will suffice, you don't need both.

Comment author: Raemon 20 March 2011 05:06:07AM 0 points [-]

Come to think of it, "Status Quo Bias" is pretty relevant.