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Cyan comments on A Rationalist's Account of Objectification? - Less Wrong Discussion

43 Post author: lukeprog 19 March 2011 11:10PM

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Comment author: Cyan 20 March 2011 03:42:56AM *  8 points [-]

Yup, that was what I was getting at: contrary to your original statement, your true objection isn't to the approach per se but to the content.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 20 March 2011 04:27:47AM 3 points [-]

Honestly, I don't see what exactly I wrote that is contrary to my original statement. The content is relevant insofar as the recommended reading represents the output of one side in an ideological struggle, and my original comment is consistent with that.

Could you clarify what precisely you mean by " approach per se" here?

Comment author: Cyan 20 March 2011 03:46:29PM *  4 points [-]

There's a tension in your original statement between value-laden phrases such as "ideological" and "successfully propagandized" and the very general remark about the approach not leading to "an unbiased understanding of any subject" (emphasis added). What I'm driving at is that your objection was really to the recommended content; you didn't quite address this head-on in the original statement but rather made an incorrect fairly general counterargument to reading widely on a given subject (or "simmering", as Alicorn put it). (The italicized phrase is my reply to your request for clarification.)

Your reply to my question about the sequences did address this head-on. At this point I'm just trying to clarify my rhetoric.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 20 March 2011 07:28:27PM 2 points [-]

Thanks for the clarification. In retrospect, I agree that my original comment was poorly worded.

Comment author: Raemon 20 March 2011 05:56:32AM *  2 points [-]

There's two separate issues to be compared:

"Go read the Sequences" : "Go read a bunch of Feminist Blogs" :: "Go read 'Circular Altruism'" : "Go read a particular article about 'Objectification."

"Objectification" and "Shut Up and Multiply" are buzzwords. They are important concepts that you need to understand in depth, even if you disagree with the ramifications and phrasing of them, if you want to discuss particular issues in a meaningful way.

"The Sequences" and "A bunch of a feminist blogs" are large collections of work that include essays of varying quality and importance. "Go read the sequences" is something I've definitely heard a lot here. Outsiders sometimes assume we mean "I don't feel like talking to you until you're part of our cult" when we say it. When in fact, they contain a lot of useful information that will change your mind about some things - but you are unlikely to start updating if you just read one particular article, especially if you've previously been biased against its topic.