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Jack comments on Knox and Sollecito freed - Less Wrong Discussion

26 Post author: komponisto 03 October 2011 08:24PM

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Comment author: wedrifid 04 October 2011 03:29:47AM 4 points [-]

As often is the case, the disagreement seems to boil down to simple miscommunication. If I'm right in my (somewhat cursory) assessment, then there's no actual difference of opinion, and this is just yet another mundane example of the words getting in the way.

There is a difference in actual opinion. It is not excessively important right now given how little power we have over this scenario. It would become important if we were, for example, choosing where the law should place the boundary of 'libel' and related laws.

He argued that they aren't targeting somebody they think is innocent (thus they're not "evil"), and that their failure of irrationality was understandable (therefore not "disgraceful"). That's it.

That's a big 'it'. I understand why humans do an awful lot of the things they do and quite often empathize with them. It's understandable for people to want other people's stuff, have sex and to eliminate rivals, for example. That doesn't make the behaviours involved less disgraceful or necessary to prevent.

So what's the difference? He seems to have pinpointed the former term as implying that they're trying to do harm, and the latter one as adding a whole slew of extra layers of incompetence or idiocy.

They are trying to do harm. They are trying to destroy the lives of some scapegoats.

Comment author: Jack 04 October 2011 06:21:55AM 2 points [-]

It's understandable for people to want other people's stuff, have sex and to eliminate rivals, for example. That doesn't make the behaviours involved less disgraceful or necessary to prevent.

Guessing I'm misunderstanding-- but do you mean to say that having sex is disgraceful and needs to be prevented?

Comment author: wedrifid 04 October 2011 06:34:00AM 7 points [-]

Guessing I'm misunderstanding-- but do you mean to say that having sex is disgraceful and needs to be prevented?

Um... imagine the syntax resolves to something like:

It's understandable for people to want {other people's stuff, have sex and to eliminate rivals}. Which is a delicate way of saying that desires to steal, rape and murder are understandable. I didn't say rape because it is dangerous to even admit to 'understanding' or 'empathizing with desires to do awful things' in the same sentence as rape even in the context of saying things are disgraceful, evil and to be prevented.

Comment author: Jack 04 October 2011 06:35:33AM 2 points [-]

Ah. Clarified, thanks.

Comment author: wedrifid 04 October 2011 06:41:21AM 1 point [-]

(And thanks for asking.)

Comment author: shokwave 04 October 2011 06:28:59AM 3 points [-]

Some of the things humans do to get sex are disgraceful things. Like rape, abuse of power, status games, killing sexual rivals, that sort of thing.