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Randy_M comments on Open thread, July 29-August 4, 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: David_Gerard 29 July 2013 10:26PM

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Comment author: Randy_M 01 August 2013 02:26:06PM *  2 points [-]

I don't know how you get that from what I said. I would claim the following three things, at least, that are relevant:

Republicans are not an especially united group; some will fillibuster the same policies that others support, like Rand Paul vs John McCain on the NSA programs.

Republicans, or pluralities of them, do not oppose all of the Presidents policies, such as much of the foreign policy and bank bailouts.

The opposition to the Presidents policies drives opposition to him being in office, and not vice versa.

Also, Republican and right wing are not synonyms.

Comment author: Randaly 01 August 2013 10:17:14PM *  -1 points [-]

I don't know how you get that from what I said.

Looking back, I misread your first post- I thought you were claiming that the Republicans' arguments were rhetorical. My response would've been, a) your response didn't really address my argument, since the section you disagreed with and b) you have no reason to assume bad faith.

Republicans are not an especially united group; some will fillibuster the same policies that others support, like Rand Paul vs John McCain on the NSA programs.

Well, yes, I wasn't claiming that every conservative holds the exact same opinion on everything; this is not true in politics in general, and is more-or-less assumed.

Republicans, or pluralities of them, do not oppose all of the Presidents policies, such as much of the foreign policy and bank bailouts.

The bank bailouts were conducted under President Bush, not Obama, and in any case poll poorly with all Americans, including Republicans. Americans as a whole oppose Obama's foreign policy, which has a 16% approval rating among Republicans.

The opposition to the Presidents policies drives opposition to him being in office, and not vice versa.

This is disproven by the fact that strong pluralities of Republicans supported almost identical policies under a different president.

Also, Republican and right wing are not synonyms.

In general, people base their identities around political parties or organizations like the Tea Party, not general political affiliation. Therefore, the relevant groups are political parties, not 'left-wing' vs 'right-wing'. Party membership is also a lot easier to measure. Therefore, people in general talk about the parties, rather than specific points on the left-right axis. (e.g. note that the above poll broke data down by Republicans vs. Democrats, not left-wing vs. right-wing)

Comment author: Randy_M 02 August 2013 02:29:13PM *  3 points [-]

"This is disproven by the fact that strong pluralities of Republicans supported almost identical policies under a different president."

Well, look, I think you are casting people as acting in bad faith but it is a lot more complicated than that, for example, different nuances in how the policies are crafted, promoted, or enforced; learning from what are viewed as mistakes; or different sentiments among the population at large. It's hard to say because you haven't given any examples.

I'm also not sure if you mean congressional Republicans or individual voters or activists or whathaveyou.

But I'm not really interested in defending Republicans any further than this here.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 02 August 2013 04:58:26AM 0 points [-]

Americans as a whole oppose Obama's foreign policy, which has a 16% approval rating among Republicans.

The pole in question fails to deal with the questions of whether they think it is too interventionist, not interventionist enough or something else.