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Oscar_Cunningham comments on Open Thread, September 23-29, 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: Mestroyer 24 September 2013 01:25AM

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Comment author: Oscar_Cunningham 29 September 2013 09:39:12AM 3 points [-]

There's a post on Overcoming Bias about this here.

Comment author: roystgnr 30 September 2013 05:10:56PM 4 points [-]

The key quote, "Incarceration destroys families and jobs, exactly what people need to have in order to stay away from crime." If we had wanted to create a permanent underclass, replacing corporal punishment with prison would have been an obvious step in the process.

Obviously that's not why people find imprisonment so preferable to torture, though; TheOtherDave's "sacred anti-value" explanation is correct there. It would be interesting to know exactly how a once-common punishment became seen as unambiguously evil, though, in the face of "tough on crime" posturing, lengthening prison sentences, etc.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 01 October 2013 10:04:50AM 5 points [-]

Maybe it's a part of human hypocrisy: we want to punish people, but in a way that doesn't make our mirror neurons feel their pain. We want people to be punished, without thinking about ourselves as the kind of people who want to harm others. We want to make it as impersonal as possible.

So we invent punishments that don't feel like we are doing something horrible, and yet are bad enough that we would want to avoid them. Being locked behind bars for 20 years is horrible, but there is no speficic moment that would make an external observer scream.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 30 September 2013 05:50:24PM 0 points [-]

It is, incidentally, not obvious to everyone that the desire to create a stable underclass didn't drive our play a significant role in our changing attitudes towards prisons... in fact, it's not even obvious to me, though I agree that they didn't play a significant role in our changing attitudes towards torturing criminals.

Comment author: Moss_Piglet 01 October 2013 02:46:34PM 0 points [-]

Because corporal punishment is an ancient display of power; the master holding the whip and the servant being punished for misbehavior. It's obviously effective, and undoubtedly more humane than incarceration, but it's also anathema to the morality of the "free society" where everyone is supposed to be equal and thus no-one can hold the whip.

(Heck, even disciplining a child is considered grounds to put the kid in foster care; if you want corporal punishment v incarceration, that's a hell of a dichotomy. And for every genuinely abused kid CPS saves, how many healthy families get broken up again?)

The idea is childish and unrealistic, but nonetheless popular because it plays on the fear and resentment people feel towards those above them. And in a democracy, popular sentiment is difficult to defeat.