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Lumifer comments on Open Thread for January 8 - 16 2014 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: tut 08 January 2014 12:14PM

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Comment author: Lumifer 09 January 2014 03:58:41PM 4 points [-]

Is not employment rate vs. population one valid metric, for instance?

It is not. Is there any correlation between unemployment and overall population across time? I don't think so. Is there any correlation between local population density and local unemployment? I don't think so. Is the unemployment in Hong Kong hugely greater than in Mongolia or Greenland?

cost of various foodstuffs vs income?

As with unemployment, look at this criterion over the last few centuries. Even during the XX century I believe the percentage of income spent on food has been steadily dropping in the developed countries.

But we don't know enough about future technology and sociology to say for certain.

It's funny how the proponents of the overpopulation thesis have absolutely no problems with linearly extending resource consumption lines far into the future but can't say anything about the future technology and so conveniently assume that it won't change.

My goal is for individuals to have more wealth and access to more resources.

So, that's pretty mainstream. Would you be fine with calling it the total economic wealth of the world?

if you were to disperse the population of India and China around the world

Let's stick to reality.

Comment author: passive_fist 09 January 2014 11:09:04PM *  -1 points [-]

So are you saying that the metrics I suggested aren't valid at all, or simply don't make a case for overpopulation existing?

I believe the percentage of income spent on food has been steadily dropping in the developed countries.

That's why I mentioned the worldwide average, not just developed countries.

Would you be fine with calling it the total economic wealth of the world?

Not total, average.

Anyway, it's no use going back-and-forth like this, because I feel like I'm seriously straying from my goal of being neutral and unbiased. I liked Manfred's response because he explicitly mentioned one well-defined issue he thinks I'm overlooking, rather than trying to overcomplicate the discussion.

Comment author: Lumifer 10 January 2014 12:55:21AM 1 point [-]

So are you saying that the metrics I suggested aren't valid at all

Yes, I don't think they have anything to do with overpopulation.

Comment author: passive_fist 10 January 2014 05:38:33AM 1 point [-]

Ok thanks, at least now I know where the disagreement lies.

Comment author: passive_fist 10 January 2014 04:23:16AM *  0 points [-]

And now you're down-voting me just because you didn't read my post before replying?

Comment author: Lumifer 10 January 2014 04:37:13AM 1 point [-]

I am not downvoting you. I rarely up- or downvote posts in threads in which I participate, anyway.

Comment author: passive_fist 10 January 2014 05:38:19AM 1 point [-]

Yeah that came out entirely different to what I had intended to ask. Retracted.