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Viliam_Bur comments on Open thread, Feb. 9 - Feb. 15, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: MrMind 09 February 2015 09:12AM

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Comment author: Viliam_Bur 13 February 2015 08:27:51PM 4 points [-]

As long as Google Play will not display my name on the credit card to users, I am okay with that. Google probably already knows about me more than anyone including myself. The problem with the home address is that according to recent changes in the terms of service, the address is displayed to users. Quoting Google Play Developer Distribution Agreement:

You must supply and maintain valid and accurate contact information that will be displayed in each application detail page on the Store and made available to users for customer support and legal purposes.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe "valid contact information" also includes my name (assuming I don't have a company). I could use a pseudonym, and write the pseudonym on my mailbox, so the post office would find me (and so would anyone who bothers to come personally to my home, which I don't care about), but if someone would send a registered letter to my pseudonym, I would not be able to take it. Damn.

App publishing is mostly anti-fragile against criticism.

Uhm, reading about GamerGate made me a bit cautious. I am libertarian-ish, and I really hate the authoritarian left. In case of achieving some success selling the games, I would hate to lose a Twitter or Patreon account just because I forgot to bite my tongue, criticized Z.Q. or A.S. somewhere on the internet, and invoked a wrath of their followers. Or anyone else, in a similar situation, five years later. (If I can trust online rumors, a few people have lost their accounts at these websites after stepping on wrong person's toes.) Other than this, I think that any controversy would probably only increase the sales. I don't want to use this strategy; just saying.

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 08:38:13PM 1 point [-]

The problem with the home address is that according to recent changes in the terms of service, the address is displayed to users.

I think Google Play assumes that most developers will operate from behind the corporate veil: the front-page name and address will belong to a business (even if it has a single owner -- you, and a single employee -- you).

That's a useful idea in general: if you are selling goods to the public, being protected from unlimited liability is a good thing.

Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 08:50:13PM 0 points [-]

I don't think he can register a business in his country without attaching his identity to it.

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 08:58:31PM 0 points [-]

I don't think he can register a business in his country without attaching his identity to it.

Of course, but that's why we're talking about pseudonymity (and not true anonymity) and that's why the thread model comes into it.

The corporate veil is not a protection against e.g. law enforcement (unless you hire smart and expensive lawyers :-D) but is a pretty good protection against casual busybodies.

Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 09:10:55PM 0 points [-]

The corporate veil is not a protection against e.g. law enforcement (unless you hire smart and expensive lawyers :-D) but is a pretty good protection against casual busybodies.

You can look up the ownership of a company on the internet. At least you can where I live.

I would be surprised if the people-search-engine's wouldn't include US corporate ownership.

It might be that living in Slovakia gives him advantages in that regard. A quick search shows:

  1. ABSENCE OF REGISTERED AGENT/SECRETARY The Czech Republic and Slovakia are standard EU jurisdictions which have adopted the EU AML Directive and have transformed it into its domestic legislations. However, the Czech/Slovak corporate law does not recognise any entity which would be licensed for the purpose of administering a company (such as secretaries in UK or Cyprus, or registered agents in other jurisdictions). Therefore, it is only very hard in practice for Czech or Slovak authorities to identify “a respective party” that would be obliged by law to collect and record the information regarding the beneficial owners of a Czech/Slovak company. Usually, requests regarding the identity of a beneficial owner of a particular company are addressed to the company itself and/or to its director(s).
Comment author: Viliam_Bur 13 February 2015 09:33:13PM 1 point [-]

You can look up the ownership of a company on the internet.

Yep. Click here, enter the company name on the first line, click the first button... and you get a list of owners' names and addresses.

Unless the company is owned by another company, which is registered in another country, etc.

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 09:41:25PM *  1 point [-]

Click here, enter the company name on the first line, click the first button... and you get a list of owners' names and addresses.

Sure. Did that, put in "ALBRECHT, a.s.", got the full documentation including the list of the executive officers of the company and their board of directors. Who owns it? Um, no idea.

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 09:22:59PM 1 point [-]

You can look up the ownership of a company on the internet.

Can you, now?

How about a couple of examples. Tell me who owns:

  • International Business Machines Corporation, 1 New Orchard Road, Armonk, New York 10504-1722, United States
  • Moonlighting Apps, LLC (a company which publishes to Google Play).
Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 09:50:37PM 0 points [-]

As far as the first instance goes I can see that the company was founded in JUNE 16, 1911 via the New York registry and it would cost 5$ to request the documents

Professional corporations must include the name(s) and address(es) of the initial officers, directors, and shareholders in the initial certificate of incorporation, however this information is not recorded and only available by viewing the certificate.

As far as Moonlighting Apps goes, the domain is owned by someone in Argentina. I don't know the Spanish to navigate through that countries registry easily to find how the company is registered.

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 09:52:47PM 1 point [-]

As far as the first instance goes I can see that the company was founded in JUNE 16, 1911 via the New York registry and it would cost 5$ to request the documents

And how would that registration from 1911 help you? :-)

Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 10:07:36PM *  0 points [-]

Ah, yes it's a bit more complicated but: (The company is a Domestic Business Corporation)

How can I find the names of officers and directors of a corporation or other business entity? Include Text

The Department of State does not require or maintain information regarding the names and addresses of officers or directors of corporations, the members or managers of a limited liability company, the limited partners of a limited partnership or the partners in a limited liability partnership. These records are internal records maintained by the corporation, limited liability company, limited partnership or limited liability partnership.

The Department of State is able to provide the address to which the Secretary of State is required to forward copies of process accepted on behalf of a corporation, limited liability company, limited partnership and limited liability partnership, as well as the name and address of the registered agent, if one has been designated.

The Department's records may include the name and address of the chief executive officer and the principal business location of a business corporation, provided that the business corporation has filed its Biennial Statement as required by Section 408 of the Business Corporation Law.

What is a Biennial Statement for a Business Corporation or Limited Liability Company?

Domestic and foreign business corporations are required by Section 408 of the Business Corporation Law to file a Biennial Statement every two years with the New York Department of State. The Biennial Statement must set forth: (i) the name and business address of its chief executive officer, (ii) the street address of its principal executive office and (iii) the address to which the New York Secretary of State shall forward copies of process accepted on behalf of the corporation.

To me it sounds like you could query that document.

Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 08:57:49PM 0 points [-]

As long as Google Play will not display my name on the credit card to users, I am okay with that. Google probably already knows about me more than anyone including myself. The problem with the home address is that according to recent changes in the terms of service, the address is displayed to users.

Google likely notices when the name on the address and the name on the credit card aren't the same.

Actually, now that I think about it, maybe "valid contact information" also includes my name (assuming I don't have a company).

I don't know the situation in your country but in my own, every website needs to include valid contact information and valid means that you have an address towards which legally binding court orders can be sent.

Other than this, I think that any controversy would probably only increase the sales.

That's my point.

You are making trade-off. You lose something by separating identities. You can't promote your game out of your main identity.

I think that identity separation would only makes sense if you would sell controversial games. Maybe adult content ;)

Comment author: Lumifer 13 February 2015 09:03:33PM 1 point [-]

in my own, every website needs to include valid contact information and valid means that you have an address towards which legally binding court orders can be sent.

What does "in my [country]" mean for a website? Do you mean physically hosted on German soil? That's... easy to overcome. Do you mean owned by a German citizen? How would they know?

Comment author: ChristianKl 13 February 2015 09:25:25PM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure to what extend courts are going to judge to which jurisdiction a website belongs but I think most websites owned by German citizens count.

How would they know?

Because you weren't careful about separating your identities. Any competitor can ask a lawyer to send you a cease and desist letter to comply with law of having a proper impressum and that lawyer can bill you for sending that letter.

The German wikipedia does provide a summary: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressumspflicht

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 13 February 2015 09:26:07PM 0 points [-]

Maybe adult content ;)

Forbidden by Google Play terms of service. ;)

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