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Jayson_Virissimo comments on Open thread, Mar. 16 - Mar. 22, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

6 Post author: MrMind 16 March 2015 08:13AM

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Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 March 2015 09:14:23AM 6 points [-]

I just realized that some people object to hedonistic utilitarianism (which I've traditionally favored) on the grounds that "pleasure" and "suffering" are meaningless and ill-defined concepts, whereas I tend to find preference utilitarianism absurd on the grounds that "preference" is a meaningless and ill-defined concept.

This seems to point to a difference in how people's motivational systems appear from the inside: maybe for some, "pleasure" is an obvious, atomic concept which they can constantly observe as driving their behavior, whereas others perceive their own actions as being driven more by something like a "preference" that seems like a coherent and obvious concept to them, and others still don't feel that either of these concepts is particularly central, causing them to disregard utilitarianism. (Of course one may also reject utilitarianism for other reasons.)

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 21 March 2015 12:21:39AM 1 point [-]

I think "pleasure" and "suffering" are very meaningful and that the prospects of finding decent metrics for each are good over the long term. The problem I have with hedonistic utilitarianism is that hedons are not what I want to maximize. Don't you ever pass up opportunities to do something you know will bring you more pleasure (even in the long run), in order to achieve some other value and don't regret doing so?

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 21 March 2015 12:29:12AM 2 points [-]

Yeah, I've drifted away from hedonistic utilitarianism over time and don't particularly want to try to defend it here.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 21 March 2015 12:46:11AM 2 points [-]

Fair enough.