Open thread, Mar. 23 - Mar. 31, 2015

MrMind

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If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.

Notes for future OT posters:

1. Please add the 'open_thread' tag.

2. Check if there is an active Open Thread before posting a new one. (Immediately before; refresh the list-of-threads page before posting.)

3. Open Threads should be posted in Discussion, and not Main.

4. Open Threads should start on Monday, and end on Sunday.

Lets say we have the capability to create living creatures and some bored scientist makes one that is relatively intelligent (enough to be considered a person in a meaningful, human definition), capable of language, requiring of little sustenance, capable of reproduction and completely and utterly happy except under to most terrible circumstances. Would the utilitarian view of the situation be to convert all usable resources to create habitats for these critters? Would the moral thing be to give the world over to them because they're better at not making each others lives terrible/are happier for the same amount of resources?

I'm pretty new around here so please forgive the sheer newbishness of my question.

What exactly do you mean with "utterly happy"? What's the empiric test to measure whether those creatures are "utterly happy"?

The more I interact with people at the high end of that spectrum the less I think that humans optimize towards happiness.

0pcm11y

See discussions of utility monsters. Don't assume that many people here support pure utilitarianism.

0gjm11y

Some possible reasons for saying no: * We aren't as good at being happy, but we might be better at improving the scope for future happiness. (E.g., maybe space colonization some day.) * This one becomes harder to justify if these critters are actually our intellectual superiors. * Other things matter (to us) besides happiness, and these critters' lives don't provide those things as well as ours do. * This answer may be irrelevant if you're only interested in utilitarian arguments. * My moral values are approximately utilitarian, but I would say that what I care about when thinking in utilitarian terms isn't happiness as such but those things of which happiness is a measure. (This doesn't require me not to care about happiness; happiness is in fact one of the things that makes us happy. If I were suddenly made much less happy about everything then that fact itself would be a source of unhappiness for me from then on.) * It may be illuminating in this connection to read "Not for the sake of pleasure alone".

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Open thread, Mar. 23 - Mar. 31, 2015

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