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Lumifer comments on Open Thread, Apr. 27 - May 3, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: Gondolinian 27 April 2015 12:18AM

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Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 27 April 2015 05:51:15PM *  1 point [-]

Additionally, I'm a little worried about the control group part. I expect it's relatively easy to recruit people to play a game and have them be motivated to play it, but if I tell people that "oh, but you may be randomly assigned to the control condition where you're given more traditional math instruction instead", I expect that that will drop participation. And even the people who do show up regardless may not be particularly motivated to actually work on the problems if they do get assigned to the control condition, especially given that I'm hoping to also educate people who'd usually avoid maths. How insane would it be to just not have a control group?

Comment author: Lumifer 27 April 2015 06:01:41PM 1 point [-]

How insane would it be to just not have a control group?

So, there is this blog/forum which tries to teach people rationality! and science! and proper ways to solve problems! It even hopes to raise the sanity waterline.

And then "oh, but it's inconvenient..." X-/

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 27 April 2015 06:38:50PM 1 point [-]

There's the extent to which I'm willing to go to raise the sanity waterline, and then there's the extent to which I'm willing to go for the sake of possibly improving my grade on a work whose final grade nobody will really ever care about.

Comment author: ChristianKl 28 April 2015 10:31:11AM 3 points [-]

There's the extent to which I'm willing to go to raise the sanity waterline, and then there's the extent to which I'm willing to go for the sake of possibly improving my grade on a work whose final grade nobody will really ever care about.

That might not be the most productive mindset. If you show that your game works at teaching Bayes, I would expect people to refer to your thesis from time to time.

Comment author: Lumifer 27 April 2015 06:47:36PM 2 points [-]

In this case I don't quite understand what are you asking.

LW is unlikely to know whether your adviser / committee will consider the absence of a control group acceptable enough for this project.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 28 April 2015 07:51:43AM 2 points [-]

You're right, I wasn't very clear on my objectives. Also, my previous comment was needlessly snarky, for which I apologize.

To be honest, I'm not very sure of what I want, myself. I have reason to believe that they'll consider it acceptable regardless of whether there's a control group or not (this being the CS department and not the psych one), so that's not actually an issue. And I've got some desire to do things "properly", for its own sake, and also because it might be fun to do this well enough to turn it into a real publication. But I'm also swamped with a bunch of other stuff and don't have a chance to spend too much effort on this.

So, I guess I dunno what I'm asking, myself.

Comment author: ChristianKl 28 April 2015 10:32:34AM 4 points [-]

To be honest, I'm not very sure of what I want, myself. I have reason to believe that they'll consider it acceptable regardless of whether there's a control group or not (this being the CS department and not the psych one)

How about going to the office hours of a professor in the psychology department and ask them for advice on how to run your study?

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 29 April 2015 09:15:31AM 2 points [-]

Your question made me go d'oh, in that I suddenly remembered that there's an obvious place right nearby to ask help from, both for designing the study and recruiting test subjects. I'll talk with them, thanks.

Comment author: [deleted] 28 April 2015 10:21:05AM 2 points [-]

Speaking very practically - who will be marking/grading your project?

If psychologists aren't going to be looking at it, it's surely going to be fine to do the intervention as best you can and then discuss implications and limitations (including need for control group) in whatever you have to write up. It's not going to be publishable but then you can deal with that later, depending on your circumstances this would probably mean re-doing the study with random assignment to conditions, starting with your project study as a pilot/proof of concept.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 29 April 2015 09:04:38AM 2 points [-]

It's going to be graded by computer scientists, so yeah, I can get away with a less rigorous protocol than what psychologists would insist on. (And then collaborate with actual psychologists with more resources later on.)