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Elo comments on Open Thread, Jun. 15 - Jun. 21, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: Gondolinian 15 June 2015 12:02AM

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Comment author: Elo 15 June 2015 04:21:10AM *  0 points [-]

not because she excelled at it compared with competitors. A mediocre but extroverted and opinionated woman willing to take risks could step into the void of the time and assume that title.

Sounds like you described her "excelling at it compared with competitors" exactly one sentence after that sentence. Sure she might not have been the best that the movement could take a hold of but according to that description she did excel at it compared to her competitors.

Can you be more clear about what you meant to say?

Disclaimer: I have no idea who this person is.

Comment author: knb 15 June 2015 07:49:29AM *  4 points [-]

O'Hair really is an interesting minor historical figure and also probably was the worst spokesperson American atheism possibly could have had, at least after the death of Jim Jones. She at one point attempted to defect to the Soviet Union because she approved of its official state atheism (which included brutal persecution of Christians, of course.) The Soviets rejected her, having been burned by western militant-atheist defectors before, like the Jonestown crew and of course, Lee Harvey Oswald. She also deliberately antagonized members of the media and publicly disowned her son when he converted to Christianity.

Comment author: advancedatheist 15 June 2015 04:45:45AM 2 points [-]

You have never heard of Madalyn Murray O'Hair?

Okay, think of the movie version of The Blue Lagoon. It doesn't work as a "love story," because with only one boy and one girl on the island, they don't have any alternative. They wind up in a sexual relationship by default, not because the boy has to compete with other boys to seduce the girl.

In Madalyn's case, no one else wanted to become the country's public face of atheism, so she managed to step into that role without having to push anyone else out of the way. And she managed to draw attention to herself afterwards because she lacked social anxiety and she said and did outrageous things which made her news-worthy, like filing harassing lawsuits against local governments for alleged breaches of church-state separation. Her boldness didn't make her especially effective or look very competent. Instead many other atheists considered her a buffoon.

Comment author: hairyfigment 15 June 2015 06:47:56AM -2 points [-]

filing harassing lawsuits against local governments for alleged breaches of church-state separation.

Can you name one that you think was plainly wrong? Because you're talking about a murder victim, which may explain why "no one wanted" her job.

Comment author: knb 15 June 2015 07:33:56AM 2 points [-]

Since she was killed and mutilated by a fellow atheist, are you implying no one wanted her job because so many atheists are killers and associating with fellow atheists is dangerous?

Comment author: hairyfigment 15 June 2015 08:47:37AM 0 points [-]

You mean the ringleader, who the organization initially hired as a typesetter? That would be evidence of atheism, had he not joined with the intent of robbing the place. And he had this to say about his victim, according to this site:

"To simply label Madalyn an atheist, racist, homophobe, anti-Semite, etc., would be a tremendous misnomer. To her dubious credit, Madalyn Mays Murray O'Hair is an equal opportunity bigot, whose loathing of humanity is evenly dispensed without partiality."

But sure, it's not the situation I imagined. Maybe the real lesson is not to trust guys with mother issues.

Comment author: Elo 15 June 2015 04:50:14AM 0 points [-]

This makes more sense. Less champion and more default.