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ChristianKl comments on Open thread, Nov. 23 - Nov. 29, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: MrMind 23 November 2015 07:59AM

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Comment author: ChristianKl 24 November 2015 11:59:44AM 2 points [-]

Cryonics is not a discussion that's primarily about biology. A lot of outsider will want to either think that cryonics works or that it doesn't. On LW there a current that we don't make binary judgements like that but instead reason with probabilities. So thinking that there a 20% chance that cryonics works is enough for people to go out and buy cryonics insurance because of the huge value that cryonics has if it succeeds. That's radically different than most people outside of LW think.

Comment author: Viliam 25 November 2015 07:03:58AM 1 point [-]

Cryonics is not a discussion that's primarily about biology.

Well, the biological aspect is "where exactly in the body is 'me' located"?

For example, many people on LW seem to assume that the whole 'me' is in the head; so you can just freeze the head, and feed the rest to the worms. Maybe that's a wrong idea; maybe the 'me' is much more distributed in the body, and the head is merely a coordinating organ, plus a center of a few things that need to work really fast. Maybe if the future science will revive the head and connect it to some cloned/artificial average human body, we will see the original personality replaced by more or less an average personality; perhaps keeping the memories of the original, but unable to empathise with the hobbies or values of the original.

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 November 2015 09:58:48AM 0 points [-]

For example, many people on LW seem to assume that the whole 'me' is in the head; so you can just freeze the head, and feed the rest to the worms.

Whether you need to freeze the whole body or whether the head is enough is a meaningful debate, but it has little to do with why a lot of people oppose cryonics.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 25 November 2015 01:28:10PM 0 points [-]

At this stage, I can see an argument for freezing the gut, or at least samples of the gut, so as to get the microbiome. Anyone know about reviving frozen microbes?

Comment author: Lumifer 25 November 2015 03:31:59PM *  2 points [-]

Anyone know about reviving frozen microbes?

It's not hard. IIRC people brought to life microbes which were frozen in permafrost tens of thousands of years ago.

Comment author: helldalgo 25 November 2015 01:20:31AM 1 point [-]

I understand that; I'm still not comfortable enough with the discussion about cryonics to bet on it working.

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 November 2015 10:01:09AM 0 points [-]

Do you have a probability in your head about cryonics working or not working, or do you feel uncomfortable assigning a probability?

Comment author: helldalgo 25 November 2015 10:30:18AM *  1 point [-]

A little of both, I think.

  1. There is evidence for and against cryonics that I KNOW exists, but I haven't parsed most of it yet.
  2. If I come to the conclusion that cryonics insurance is worth betting on, I am not sure I can get my spouse on board. Since he'd ultimately be in charge of what happens to my remains, AND we have an agreement to be open about our financial decisions, him being on board is mandatory.
  3. If I come to the conclusion that cryonics is worth betting on, I might feel morally obligated to proselytize about it. That has massive social costs for me.
  4. I'm freaked out by the concept because very intelligent people in my life have dismissed the concept as "idiotic," and apparently cryonics believers make researchers in the field of cryogenics very uncomfortable.

Basically, it's a whole mess of things to come to terms with. The spouse thing is the biggest.

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 November 2015 12:04:21PM *  2 points [-]

I think those concerns are understandable but the thing that makes LW special is that discourse here often ignores uncomfortable barriers of thought like this. That can feel weird for outsiders.

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