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RichardKennaway comments on Open thread, Nov. 30 - Dec. 06, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion
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I request the attention of a moderator to the wiki editing war that began a week ago between Gleb_Tsipursky and VoiceofRa, regarding the article on Intentional Insights. So far. VoiceofRa has deleted it twice, and Gleb_Tsipursky has restored it twice.
Due to the way the editing to remove the page was done, to see the full editing history it is necessary to look also at the pseudo-article titled Delete.
I do not care whether there is an article on Intentional Insights or not, but I do care about standards for editing the wiki.
I think there surely should be an article on Intentional Insights but it should be as neutrally written as possible. Deleting it seems like mere vandalism to me.
I've put a new version of the page in place. It is much less uncritical than what Gleb wrote.
... Er, but now that seems to be gone and I don't even see any record of my edits. Perhaps I needed to do something different on account of the page having been deleted. (I just visited the page with redirect=no or redirect=off or whatever it is, edited its contents to replace the magic #REDIRECT[[Delete]] or whatever it was, and saved -- was that wrong?)
Anyway, it looks as if Gleb has now recreated the page again, so it exists but is rather one-sidedly promotional.
[EDITED to add:] No, wait, I was seeing an old cached version. I think the wiki must be serving up pages with misleading cache-control headers or something. I think it's all OK.
This is rather strange. If I go to https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Intentional_Insights, I see Gleb's last version. If I go to https://wiki.lesswrong.com/index.php?title=Intentional_Insights, I see gjm's version. However, clicking on the history tab of the latter page lists no edits since Gleb's of 19 November.
On the "Delete" page, the history at https://wiki.lesswrong.com/index.php?title=Delete&action=history shows a third attempt by VoiceofRa at 18:49 on 30 November 2015 (timezone unspecified but probably UDT) to delete the InIn material.
There seems to be some sort of inconsistency in the wiki. VoiceofRa's misuse of redirection does not help.
Try doing control-f5 to force a full reload of the page. Until I did that, I found that I saw "my" version when logged in and Gleb's version when logged out. I think I saw weird behaviour in the histories too, but I forget exactly what.
I'm using Safari on a Mac, so ctrl-F5 isn't a meaningful keystroke. Trying a different browser that I've never accessed these pages before with gave the same behaviour. That browser (Firefox) has ctrl-shift-R for a forced reload, and that made the wiki pages for the article itself show your version. However, the history and discussion pages weren't up to date, until I did more forced reloads.
Now even more weirdness is happening. In Firefox, if I force-reload https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Intentional_Insights, I get the latest version. If I do an ordinary reload, I get Gleb's old version. Force reload -- new. Ordinary reload -- old. I have never seen this behaviour before. Clearly something is wrong somewhere, but what?
Back in Safari, I cleared all history and cookies. Same behaviour as before: one URL gets Gleb's old version, one gets your version. This happens whether I'm logged in or out.
I see that the history has a few minor edits by Gleb around 06:38, 1 December 2015. UDT right now is 22:53, 30 November 2015. What timezone does the wiki run on?
looks like this happened:
by taking the old ININ page and renaming it "delete" it took the history over there to a page named "delete".
Assuming gleb made a new inin page; that would be a second set of history. and be making a mess of the wiki in general.
Nothing fancy; probably not purposefully done to hide the edit history; rather probably done to add permanence to the action of trying to delete the page (and had the effect of messing with the edit history as well)
Thank you.
Thanks for figuring this out, all! I have little wiki editing experience, so this is quite helpful knowledge.
Thank you for raising this.
I suggest Gleb not be permitted to edit the page as he is motivated to not be impartial. I also suggest Ra equally not edit the page and we leave it to others to modify. (I hate saying "others will do it" but at worst I will)
Perhaps also best to add that Intentional Insights is not officially affiliated with LW?
it's worth considering: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Help:User_Guide
maybe we should keep the contents of that page to a minimum, link to InIn and let it stand for itself.
Worth noting as well - the following affiliates do not have their own pages;
While it does not necessarily mean that they should not; InIn would do well to stand with it's peers.
suggested text:
This is a good point, certainly prediction book and omnilibrium are much more worthy of a wiki page then Gleb's pseudo-rationality site.
Such is the nature of a wiki: if no one has put in effort to make it; it won't be there.
Given that Gleb demonstrates his motivation to publish; it comes as no surprise that he is trying to put inin there; however I would have expected beeminder (as a profiting entity) to be motivated to grow similarly (although not as voraciously).
I have reached out to beeminder to put themselves onto the wiki. Would you be interested in putting omni in?
Unfortunately the end result is likely to be the wiki getting taken over by shameless self-promoters.
It doesn't have to be a bad thing. LW itself was born from EY's self-promotion.
True, however, most shameless self promoters are BS artists.