this is actually best considered a disagreement about values rather than about definitions
Well, yes, because in the political context "framework" very often means "value framework". However both definitions and frameworks matter -- it is still the case that the argument will get nowhere until people agree on the meaning of the words they are using.
It feels as if you may be trying to correct a mistake I'm not making. I agree that definitions matter. As I said two comments upthread:
for the avoidance of doubt, I am not taking "X is a disagreement about definitions" to imply "X is trivial" or anything of the kind.
If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.
Notes for future OT posters:
1. Please add the 'open_thread' tag.
2. Check if there is an active Open Thread before posting a new one. (Immediately before; refresh the list-of-threads page before posting.)
3. Open Threads should be posted in Discussion, and not Main.
4. Open Threads should start on Monday, and end on Sunday.