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knb comments on Open thread, Jan. 18 - Jan. 24, 2016 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: MrMind 18 January 2016 09:42AM

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Comment author: knb 20 January 2016 03:45:52AM *  1 point [-]

Oil prices have recently fallen to near record lows. What are the risks and benefits?

Risks:

  • Increased instability in the Mideast as governments are less able to buy the loyalty of the people.
  • Likely slow the transition to electric vehicles, may slow the overall decline of carbon emissions.
  • Many job losses in petroleum-producing locations, especially higher cost producers.

Benefits:

  • Possibly stimulate the global economy, especially good for fast-developing oil importers like China and India.
  • Might push oil producers toward economic reforms that will be needed eventually anyway.
  • Might help avert some of the resource-war scenarios that have been described as inevitable by Malthusians.

Debatable:

  • Geopolitical power relatively shifts away from Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, toward NATO/OECD and China.

Any important dynamics I'm missing?

Comment author: _rpd 21 January 2016 06:35:25PM 2 points [-]

We can expect lower food prices. High food prices have been an important political stressor in developing nations.

Comment author: MrMind 20 January 2016 08:16:22AM *  2 points [-]

Only two nuances:
- Venezuela is / will very shortly also experience political instability;
- Iran has just seen heavy international sanctions lifted, so while its oil will be valued less than it could have been, it will still provide a push to the economy.

Comment author: Clarity 21 January 2016 06:07:21AM 0 points [-]

Finally my readings of Stratfor Wikileak documents about Venezuala are topical!

Comment author: RichardKennaway 20 January 2016 02:26:24PM 0 points [-]

Any important dynamics I'm missing?

Saudi Arabia flooded the market in order to reduce the price, in order to combat the benefit to Iran of the raising of sanctions.

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 January 2016 10:19:41AM 3 points [-]

Saudi Arabia flooded the market

Their oil production didn't rise that much. They didn't really flood the market. They mainly decided not to cut their production.

Comment author: _rpd 21 January 2016 06:25:10PM 1 point [-]

They mainly decided not to cut their production.

And there is a good reason for this decision. Saudi Arabia tried cutting production in the '80s to lift prices, and it was disastrous for them. Here's a blog post with nice graphs showing what happened ...

Understanding Saudi Oil Policy: The Lessons of ‘79

Comment author: knb 21 January 2016 09:13:20AM 1 point [-]

That's one argument. Another common argument is that they want to increase their market share and kill the US tight oil industry.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 20 January 2016 03:48:47PM 0 points [-]

That's a strange move. Right now the last thing oil producers need is even lower prices.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 January 2016 04:13:45PM 2 points [-]

You're assuming they are maximizing money. That is not so.

Comment author: MrMind 21 January 2016 08:49:54AM 1 point [-]

Consider that Saudi Arabia and Iran are on the opposing side of Islam sects, so the reason was to stump the sudden economic growth of their enemy.
Yes, it's centuries that people kill each over who was the correct successor of Muhammad, his cousin or his friend. Welcome to planet Earth...

Comment author: polymathwannabe 21 January 2016 04:50:36PM *  0 points [-]

the reason was to stump the sudden economic growth of their enemy

I get that. But by cutting their own lifeblood? On what basis do Saudi strategists estimate that the damage to the Saudi economy will be small enough compared to the damage to the Iranian one?