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Lumifer comments on Open Thread March 7 - March 13, 2016 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: Elo 07 March 2016 03:24AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 07 March 2016 08:32:55PM 5 points [-]

Give me everything I want...

In capitalist economies scarce resources are effectively auctioned off to the highest bidder. If you're noticeably poorer than people around you, you will likely be unable to get to these resources. A simple example: buying a house.

But that doesn't imply that e.g. a capitalist economy with basic income couldn't provide even more.

At one level, no, it doesn't. But at the same level it also doesn't imply that a capitalist economy with X (where X can be anything) couldn't provide even more as well.

At another level yes, it does, because there are reasons why a capitalist economy works and a command economy doesn't. These reasons are relevant to evaluating whether a basic income is a good idea.

Comment author: pangel 07 March 2016 11:07:40PM 1 point [-]

Could you expand on this?

...there are reasons why a capitalist economy works and a command economy doesn't. These reasons are relevant to evaluating whether a basic income is a good idea.

Comment author: Lumifer 08 March 2016 04:05:05PM 3 points [-]

Consider incentives. Under capitalism one incentive is the possibility of becoming rich, but another, more basic one, is the desire not to starve. Under a command economy you won't usually starve (because you're a useful labour unit), at least in a situation where you can do something about it. You still might starve because of incompetence or a political decision.

A large number of people do not enjoy their jobs and, given the opportunity, would... take early retirement, let's put it this way. That's a problem. Command economies solve it by command (recall that being unemployed was a criminal offense in the Soviet Union). Capitalist economies solve it by saying "OK, I'll wait till you get hungry".

A livable basic income would make that incentive disappear. Yes, some people would be happy. The consequences for society, though, are debatable :-/