Lumifer comments on Welcome to Less Wrong! (7th thread, December 2014) - LessWrong

16 Post author: Gondolinian 15 December 2014 02:57AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 21 July 2015 03:41:00AM 2 points [-]

How much of my rhetoric have you actually had the chance to observe?

Well, right here is a nice example:

that reveals a set of values which are kinda disturbing to me. It signals that you care about whether you can read IQ-by-race-and-gender studies more than you care about genocide and acid attacks and lynchings

Would you care to be explicit about the connection between IQ-by-race studies and genocide..?

Comment author: Acty 21 July 2015 05:16:02AM *  0 points [-]

There is no connection. I'm not trying to imply a connection. The only connection is that they are both things possibly implied by the word "racism".

I'm trying to say that when I say "I oppose racism", intending to signal "I oppose people beating up minorities", and people misunderstand badly enough that they think I mean "I oppose IQ-by-race studies", it disturbs me. If people know that "I oppose racism" could mean "I oppose genocide", but choose to interpret it as "I oppose IQ-by-race studies", that worries me. Those things are completely different and if you think that I'm more likely to oppose IQ-by-race studies than I am to oppose genocide, or if you think IQ-by-race studies are more important and worthy of being upset about than genocide, something has gone very wrong here.

A sentence like "I oppose racism" could mean a lot of different things. It could mean "I think genocide is wrong", "I think lynchings are wrong", "I think people choosing white people for jobs over black people with equivalent qualifications is wrong", or "I think IQ by race studies should be banned". Automatically leaping to the last one and getting very angry about it is... kind of weird, because it's the one I'm least likely to mean, and the only one we actually disagree about. You seriously want to reply to "I oppose racism" with "but IQ by race studies are valid Bayesian inference!" and not "yes, I agree that lynching people is very wrong"? Why? Are IQ by race studies more important to your values than eliminating genocide and lynchings? Do you genuinely think that I am more likely to oppose IQ-by-race studies than I am to oppose lynchings? The answer to neither of those questions should be yes.

Comment author: VoiceOfRa 21 July 2015 06:29:49AM 0 points [-]

I'm trying to say that when I say "I oppose racism", intending to signal "I oppose people beating up minorities", and people misunderstand badly enough that they think I mean "I oppose IQ-by-race studies", it disturbs me.

That's because most people who say "I oppose racism" mean the latter, and no one except you means the former. That's largely because most people oppose beating people up for no good reason and thus they don't feel the need to constantly go about saying so.

Comment author: Good_Burning_Plastic 21 July 2015 07:09:28AM -1 points [-]

no one except you means the former

I don't think so.