Comment author: thomblake 16 February 2012 08:56:16PM *  2 points [-]

Try to find the threat.

I spotted a non-existent tiger face just to the right of the fox - then I noticed the fox and was confused about why it's called a threat.

Comment author: ac3raven 17 February 2012 01:08:23AM 0 points [-]

I needed a word that didn't explicitly tell the viewer what to look for. "Prey" or "Predator" would have made it too obvious, and I certainly didn't want to say "find the fox" or "find the animal".

I used the word "threat" because the act of finding the fox in the image represents our survival mechanisms being put to use, even if the animal is not a real threat, if you heard rustling in the foliage, the first instinct is to assume it's a threat.

Comment author: Anubhav 16 February 2012 09:17:48AM *  4 points [-]

This isn't about the virtues of rationality; it's about cheering for rationality.

Comment author: ac3raven 17 February 2012 01:04:15AM 0 points [-]

You're criticism is welcome. We are certainly trying to make the game more than just a cheer, and I realize the information in my posts is a bit vague, but that's because I really, really don't want to spoil the game.

Comment author: Emile 16 February 2012 08:27:54PM 5 points [-]

Since there seem to be quite a few lesswrongers involved in making games, or interested in doing it as a hobby, I just created a little mailing-list for general chat - talk about your projects, rant about design theory, ask for advice, talk about how to apply lesswrong ideas to game development, talk about how to apply game development ideas to lesswrong's goals, etc.

Comment author: ac3raven 17 February 2012 01:01:53AM 1 point [-]

This is great!

Empiricism in Gameplay

0 ac3raven 16 February 2012 06:37AM

This article relates to a game, being developed by Shiny Ogre Games, based on "The Twelves Virtues of Rationality" by Eliezer Yudkowsky.

The sixth virtue is empiricism. The roots of knowledge are in observation and its fruit is prediction. What tree grows without roots? What tree nourishes us without fruit? If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound? One says, “Yes it does, for it makes vibrations in the air.” Another says, “No it does not, for there is no auditory processing in any brain.” Though they argue, one saying “Yes”, and one saying “No”, the two do not anticipate any different experience of the forest. Do not ask which beliefs to profess, but which experiences to anticipate. Always know which difference of experience you argue about. Do not let the argument wander and become about something else, such as someone’s virtue as a rationalist. Jerry Cleaver said: “What does you in is not failure to apply some high-level, intricate, complicated technique. It’s overlooking the basics. Not keeping your eye on the ball.” Do not be blinded by words. When words are subtracted, anticipation remains. --The Twelve Virtues of Rationality, EliezerYudkowsky

 

Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily via sensory experience. --Wikipedia

 

We can write whole books about empiricism, describing what it is, why it's useful, and how it works.  We can use an innumerable amount of words to describe the nuanced techniques involved in thinking empirically about a problem.  Words are certainly valuable for describing things, but can gameplay describe a thing more effectively?

Our brains are pattern-seeking machines.  We like figuring things out, it's a survival mechanism.  Our brains release endorphins when we decode the noise of our environment.

Try to find the threat.

Games more or less consist of a series  of interesting challenges (or patterns), with mechanics that allow the player to figure out the challenges (or decode the noise).   Decoding noise is what our brains do all the time, when we find patterns in the noise, we cache those for later reference.  We do this because it is fun.

 

You decoded the noise of "face" a long time ago, and now you've "chunked" it, so that you can quickly find the "face" pattern wherever you look.

As Raph Koster famously said in his book, A Theory of Fun:  "Fun is just another word for learning",  because of this, gameplay can be expressive.   By designing the challenges so that they evoke your various modes of thinking, and then setting those challenges into a narrative where the player assumes a role and is allowed to explore the system within the constraints of that role, a game can allow the player to experience the application of a concept.

In the Empiricism level, we are trying to create a puzzle that requires empirical thinking to solve.   That is, the player can only solve the puzzle if they are able to draw on their experiences and observations both within the game and without to make accurate predictions about how the puzzle elements should behave.  In this puzzle, we do not try to trick or mislead the player, we do not require the player to react quickly, there is no violence, and the player cannot die.  We give the player the freedom to experiment with the puzzle, and all we ask is that the player think empirically about the world presented by the puzzle.

If all goes as planned, the player will solve the puzzle not through logical-deduction, process of elimination, or wild guessing, but by empiricism.  They will do this without a single word of instruction or narrative, and they will grasp the concept on a deeper level because of it.  Hopefully.

Here's some art:


 

Comment author: ac3raven 03 November 2011 05:41:49PM 4 points [-]

Hopefully this new survey will reveal more diversity and will be taken by more than ~160 users.

Comment author: ac3raven 03 October 2011 06:17:04PM 4 points [-]

"I can do parkour for the rest of my life without even moving. Just efficient thinking."

  • Ryan Doyle, parkour athlete
In response to Gameplay Art
Comment author: Alexei 20 September 2011 05:59:24PM 0 points [-]

Did you see my recent post on "Rationality and Video Games"? Would you be interested in pulling resources together?

Also, can you link to your game (if it's out), or some more screenshots, or a website?

In response to comment by Alexei on Gameplay Art
Comment author: ac3raven 20 September 2011 10:44:13PM 0 points [-]

here's our website The game is still very much in development.

In response to Gameplay Art
Comment author: Alexei 20 September 2011 05:57:13PM 2 points [-]

Are games art?

This is a solved question, just like, "If a tree falls in the forest, and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Taboo sound / taboo art. The question dissolves pretty much by itself.

Another way to think about it: if I say games are art, what do you expect from that? If I say games are not art, what do you expect that to mean?

In response to comment by Alexei on Gameplay Art
Comment author: ac3raven 20 September 2011 09:50:19PM 0 points [-]

I would say that games are a medium for expression. It doesn't have to be artistic expression.

Comment author: Alexei 20 September 2011 06:07:46PM 2 points [-]

Oh, cool, I just posted a comment to your new article, not realizing you had a comment here.

Puzzle games are everywhere, but they only make you better at solving those exact puzzles (or very similar ones). The player doesn't carry that knowledge out of the game and into the world. I want to make games that teach skills that the player can apply to the real world.

I'll keep in touch, and let you know what my next project will be. May be we can pull our resources together and make it happen.

Comment author: ac3raven 20 September 2011 09:38:20PM 1 point [-]

Puzzle games are everywhere, but they only make you better at solving those exact puzzles

On a previous article I posted here, a user asked me if it was going to be an educational game or just one that promotes rationality. For your reason above, we are designing the game mostly to promote the concept of rationality, rather than teach it.

Johnathan Blow had this to say about puzzles:

"A good puzzle to me is one that when you understand it, you not only understand the solution to the puzzle, but that also illuminates something else that you hadn't thought about that is some other part of the larger world."

This is essentially what we are trying to do with our virtue puzzles. I think our Perfectionism puzzle illustrates this beautifully, but I don't want to spoil that.

PM me your email address and we can talk about the prospects of working together in the future.

In response to comment by CuSithBell on Gameplay Art
Comment author: rysade 19 September 2011 11:13:03PM *  6 points [-]

I concur.

The beginning of games typically have next to no worthwhile activities.

Wired's article on the making of Halo 3 describes the process of leading the player along a set path using 'no return' strategies exactly like the one displayed here. The motive for doing so in Bungie's case was to make it so the player did not get confused and wander around endlessly. In this case, the no return strategy is supposed to be symbolic of something, of an irrecoverable loss. However, if nothing is being lost, then it fails to symbolize in any meaningful way.

I would say in order to get the ledge to symbolize that loss meaningfully, you'll have to fill the beginning of the game with worthwhile and engaging activities. Mini-games if you will. That way, falling down the ledge will be a kind of 'Ender burrowing through the Giant's eye' sort of moment. It will move the game past the time-wasting distractions of the beginning and it can start to take on real meaning.

Now, I definitely don't want to introduce any elements of scope creep into your development, but I do think that if you want to tell the story you are trying to tell, then there has to be something for the player to give up.

In response to comment by rysade on Gameplay Art
Comment author: ac3raven 19 September 2011 11:40:03PM 4 points [-]

My plan is to make the first area a "playground" of game mechanics to make it feel like a "lived-in" place. You're essentially leaving your "home" to go on an adventure. Your example of Ender's Game is fascinating. Thanks for the advice.

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