All of Yovel Rom's Comments + Replies

Oh, I see. I find it very unlikely. Such actions would border on casus beli, and it just doesn't seem important enough to risk an actual war with Israel. The US sent ~$80B over the years, which is a bit less than $2B a year, which is 2% of Egypt's government budget. 

The peace with Israel is mainly based on mutual deterrence since the 1973 war, military aid from Israel and more. The US is not a major actor within it.

I would expect very public, very ulikely to escalate actions in order to increase US aid. Not something like this.

2ChristianKl
The entity that I'm talking about is the Egyptian military and not the Egyptian government.  It's worth noting here that the Egyptian military is a bit different than a lot of other militaries and does things like olive oil production. Directly funding Hamas would be a casus beli. On the other hand, there are actions like saying "because you cut the funding we unfortunately can't afford border patrol at that point where there might be weapons going into Gaza, it's too bad that we are stripped of cash..."

I agree it will also affect Gaza. Disagree about the effect on Israeli casualties.

I agree. However I know that it's widely accepted Hamas is enjoying popular support. I don't have good public sources to support that statement, it follows from many little anecdotes over the years. A good example is that unlike widely unliked authoritarian regimes such as Belarus, they enjoyed very little protests over the years, and have managed to repeatedly rally people to their needs. 

While it's a defensible position from a "briefely googled this" point of view, I really don't think people who have been following closely hold this position. 

-1ChristianKl
Hamas does provide social services. A short GPT4 summary is: >Hamas, an Islamist Palestinian political and military organization, has a significant social welfare component. Since its establishment in 1987, Hamas has set up numerous social service institutions, clinics, schools, and other humanitarian agencies in the Palestinian territories, particularly the Gaza Strip. Here are some of the social services that Hamas provides or has provided: >Education: Hamas has founded and operated schools, kindergartens, and colleges. The educational institutions not only provide basic education but also often include religious teachings and, in some cases, political indoctrination. >Healthcare: Hamas operates a network of clinics and hospitals in Gaza. These institutions provide medical services ranging from basic healthcare to surgical procedures. During periods of conflict, these institutions have also treated individuals injured in the fighting. >Charities: Hamas has established various charitable organizations that distribute aid to the needy, including food, clothing, and financial assistance. >Orphanages and Youth Centers: Institutions have been set up to care for orphans and provide youth with various activities, training, and support. >Mosques and Religious Classes: Hamas's roots are in the Muslim Brotherhood, and it places significant emphasis on religious outreach and education. It has built and maintained mosques and offers religious classes. >Rehabilitation and Special Needs Services: Some facilities have been set up to cater to individuals with disabilities and to help rehabilitate those affected by the ongoing conflict. >Housing and Infrastructure: After conflicts or due to deteriorating living conditions, Hamas has sometimes been involved in housing projects or infrastructure repair, either directly or by supporting such projects. >These social services have helped Hamas garner significant popular support among Palestinians, particularly in the Gaza Stri

I really doubt that. The Hamas generally enjoys popular support, AFAIK (no good public source).

I really doubt that. The Hamas generally enjoys popular support, AFAIK (no good public source).

Yovel Rom-1-2

The government was democratically elected in 2006, so it's not a bad indication.

7ChristianKl
Elections are complex and there are many reasons to prefer one politician over another.  Besides, according to Google, Gaza's median age is 18. Most of the people who are currently living in Gaza were not able to vote back in 2006. My main point here is that good information about the views is hard to access. The fact that you point to information that's been out of date for more than a decade is a sign that good information is hard to access.
1Benaya Koren
Yes. Then again, eventfull 17 years passed and minds could change (I don't think it happened to be honest)
Yovel Rom-2-3

The Russian are now close Iranian allies, so it might have been some form of payment. 

Could you point me to the exact deal? I'm not sure what you're talking about. Also, Egypt had three different regimes since 2010, which all had different interests. We have reasonably good relations with the current one.

Sure. Qatar is one other obvious candidate, and there are probably other possibilities. 

2ChristianKl
The Camp David Accords accords back in 1979 where Egypt and Israel signed a peace deal. They are the reason U.S. aid to Egypt was the second-largest recipient of U.S. aid after Israel. The governments of Egypt changed three times since 2010 but military leadership didn't.  First, the military allowed the government to fall and be replaced by a democratic one partly because the government didn't do what the military wanted. Then, there was the Democratic government which also didn't do what the military wanted and finally, the military took over.  When the military took over various groups pressured the US to reduce aid to Egypt. From the perspective of the Egyptian military that's likely walking back on the agreements on which the peace between Egypt and Israel rests. 

I was actually born in Netzarim in the Gaza strip, but my parents left when I was one month old for job reasons. I've not been there until 2005, when The Separation happened, all jews were transferred from the strip and jewish entrance was prohibited, after which I couldn't visit anymore.

There are 150,000 Palestinians from the West Bank who work in in Israel, and around 15,000 from the Gaza strip who used to do the same until last saturday. Israelis and Israeli Arabs mix all the time (for instance, I have some Israeli Arab friends), Palestinians less so. A... (read more)

Part 1: I agree, it seems they don't use the Roofknock Protocol for now, and that will be the main source of civilian casualties. It's a tragedy, but not actually a problem by law of war (see Jay Donde's post).

Part 2: I generally agree. I don't think actual food shortage will be a problem (5%), electricity might (10-33%, very uncertain) but I don't think will cause many casualties by itself. We live in a warm country, and hospitals (and Hamas operatives) have emergency reserves.

Part 3: I agree, and think it depends a lot on Egyptian refugee policy.

Addition... (read more)

1Benaya Koren
About the Lebanon situation, I'm much more sure that it will make Palestinian casualties rise than that it will make Israeli casualties rise. My impression (from public information) is that Israel is capable of destroying both Hammas and Hizballah pretty quickly if it is willing to play dirty enough. And my impression about Israel is that it care about ethics, but not enough to allow an existential threat to exist. So in such situation I expect Israel to be super aggressive against Gaza in order to end it quickly and focus on Lebanon.

I'm not so sure about that. Hamas don't actually talk that much about the deal, and as long as Israel doesn't do anything too terrible in the coming war I don't think it'll be affected that much. I also don't think a deal with the Saudis will do nearly as much damage to the Hamas as will the current attack, which represents a clear existential threat to its regime. 

This could be an Iranian plan for the same reasons, since they have less to lose and more to gain from sabotaging the deal, but then I would expect a similar attack from Hezbollah at the sa... (read more)

2Davidmanheim
I disagree with you about what Hamas's ultimate goal is - you seem to envision this as a near-term self-promotion and self-preservation organization, whereas religious extremists are often happy to sacrifice themselves and others for their ideals. If Israel makes peace with the Saudis, it cements the status quo in place, makes it impossible to actually reasonably claim that the Muslim world would support the destruction of Israel, negating Hamas's entire platform and reason to exist. I strongly agree with you that this was intended to be smaller - I expect that they were anticipating a non-zero level of resistance at the border, and most of the attackers being turned back. But they were inviting reprisals in either case, and the reason they tend to do mount attacks is to manipulate internal Palestinian or Israeli politics in some way.
1Benaya Koren
I don't see how getting Hezbollah involved increases the impact on the Saudi deal, except by making Palestinians suffer worse casualties. Hezbollah has much less Saudi sympathy than the Palestinians. It is also a more valuable pawn to sacrifice, if your goal is just to get pictures of Israel killing arabs.

Thanks for your question! It's complicated, and I'll try to adress it tomorrow. 

I slightly disagree with David here: Hamas representatives did thank some unnamed countries in addition to Iran in the last couple of days, which might hint to some Russian involvement and supply. However they don't want to be publicly associated with all this, so I imagine it's not too substantial.

I don't know about the war on terror more than what David said, sorry. It's a bit far from home, and I was young at the time and didn't follow it closely.

5ChristianKl
What interests do you imagine Russia having here? Israel was pretty shy at supporting Ukraine, so from the Russian perspective, Israeli policy in the last years shouldn't be seen as too bad.  There are many other countries that have motives. There was a deal with the Egyptian military that in return for the US paying them off, they won't support the Palestinians. It seems like the US stopped some of the payments in the last years "because of the country’s repressive policies". It would be surprising if some in the Egyptian military think they don't need to uphold their end of the deal in response.  The Israel/Saudi deals are hated by many Muslims in the region. There might be people in various Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia who would like that alliance to break up. 

I don't expect it, since historically Israel let humanitarian supplies in during wars. I also sincerely hope it will continue do that during this war.

IIRC (can't find sources right now) common practice has been to stop electricity for some time, then when international pressure increases supply it interminently. 

Yeah, I don't understand the water situation myself. I hear Hamas complaining about electricity, and not about water, so it seems to be fine for now.

About casualties: That's extremely difficult to answer in the best conditions, depends on the ... (read more)

Ansel104

Thanks for the response, especially including specific examples.

My motivation for asking these questions, is to anticipate that which will be obvious and of greatest humanitarian concern in hindsight, say in a year.

This is a scenario that I think is moderately probable, that I'm worried about: 

Part 1, most certain: Israeli airstrikes continue, unclear if they're still using their knocking system much. Due in part to deliberate Hamas mixing of combatants and non-combatants, numbers of civilian casualties rise over time.

Part 2, less certain: Israel cont... (read more)

I imagine the US might have something like that. but if it does it doesn't share it.

I agree, which is why I tried to answer to the points concretely. Did I miss anything? I did write "your points" where I should have written "their points", but I don't think it's important enough to edit. I'm not surprised at all, I've seen worse. The far left is quite antisemitic.

6Algon
Nah, I don't think you missed anything. It was just that you wrote "your points" and I assumed mattposts was giving their own viewpoints at first, so I wanted to check you/others realized that there were two pretty different interpretations of their post.

They did indeed stop going to reserve. However, basically 99% of them who were of relevant age enlisted now. It's not actually in our cultural DNA not to show up in emergency. Brothers In Arms also called for everyone to enlist immediately (Hebrew, sorry).

Context: Brothers in Arms Is an anti-Netanyahu group that was pushing reservists to protest.

Historically wars did not negatively affect long term growth in Israel.
 

  1. Not much, unless maybe Hezbolla joins in and starts seriously shelling us. It has accurate long range rockets which can do orders of manitude damage more than Hamas. However maybe in the long term we'll frogleap back? IDK.
  2. Not much
  3. I imagine opposition, since it's seen as a strategic failure by Nethanyahu policy, who was in charge in the last 15 years. However that's hard to predict, since it might give rise to far right forces who'll want to retaliate.
Yovel Rom2819

Wildly off the mark. I'll try and address your points one by one. 

  1. Content warning: discussing slaugter of innocent jews, babies and elderly. Also the Holocaust. 
    How many babies and elderly Germans were killed during the Uprising of Warsaw Ghetto? Literally zero. It's a baseless comparison, making analogy between a last stand of people getting slaughtered against Nazi soldiers, and people who slaughtered hundreds of music festival attendees, beheading babies, taking babies as hostages, killing and burning babies (terrible censored image, proceed a
... (read more)
Algon123

I don't know what mattposts actually meant by his post, but I thought a plausible interpretation was literally just "what do you make of these socialist positions?" with the context that a number of socialist/leftist orgs have been saying some pretty anti-semitic stuff recently. Like, I want to say suprisingly, but maybe I was just fooling myself. 

Nope. 

I don't think you will be able to get an actual solution in the next 10-20 years (barring SAGI- scale changes), since there's a sizable fraction of the palestinian population that wants literal jewish genocide and the destruction of Israel [1].

I do think Israeli government is planning to take over the Gaza Strip, so I imagine we'll get some kind of a different equilibrium after. But I can promise you nobody knows how what will happen in the day after. Some people are trying to promote solutions, such as the Palestinian Authority taking over the ... (read more)

3Gesild Muka
Thank you for responding. I'm sorry for my ignorance, this is something that I've followed from afar since ~2004 so it's not just a grim fascination (although I guess it kind of is), I couldn't pass up the chance to ask questions of someone on the ground. I have a few more questions if that's ok.. How often are comprehensive plans to achieve peace reported in the media or made available to the public? Is there anything like ongoing discourse between Jewish Israelis, Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship and Palestinians in Gaza who are all of a similar mind? My questions here have to do with wanting to understand why the conflict continues. Is it, for example, because of  1. A relatively small number of people on each side who keep the conflict going 2. Ingrained ideologies in the majority of both sides 3. Lack of detailed options/language to discuss solutions 4. Outside influence/funding 5. Something else 6. All or none of the above

We have been keeping peace and nation building in the West Bank in the last fourty years or so. It's far from perfect, but the places didn't go up in flames in the last 20 years or so. We have less options than the US in Afghanistan so we learn through trial and error. Also the EU tends to send experts to try and help (whether they do is a diffferent question, for which I don't actually know the answer). 

The problem tends to be not that we don't know how to nation- build,  but that we don't want to. When we tried to build an actual Palestinian co... (read more)

Haha not that different from data science in other large organizations, but from time to time you do gruard shifts because it's the army. 

People try to make you do research on problems with next to no data, and there are literal human lives on the line, but you have to convince everyone it's not possible and you should focus on other, more approachable problems.

Let's take, for instance, a non classified problem: Automatically detecting people trying to sneak towards you. Seemingly easy: computer vision is a solved problem! However, sneaking tends to h... (read more)

4Tao Lin
I feel like militaries would really want to collect huge datasets of camoflaged military personel and equipment, usually from long distance. If people collected million-image datasets and used the largest models it might be feasible

Sorry it took me some time. 
I agree with your asessment. I did say Israel tried to do that, but it's a hard problem. I didn't want to elaborate on this point in the original comment since it felt off topic, so here goes:

TL;DR: Blockade is the baseline from which we try to improve, since Hamas are genocidal terrorists and use any aid to military needs. Under that constraint Israel has supplied water, food, electricity, and tried to build more generators and let palestinians work within its borders.

Some links will be in hebrew, sorry in advance. I'll on... (read more)

Yovel Rom15-1
  1. Thanks for your concern! Thankfully I've been impacted very little personally. I live in the center of Israel which "only" gets bombed once a day or so. My room is a bomb shelter (as is required by Isreali law to be available in every apartment), so I don't even have to get out of bed if there's an alarm during the night! 
    However two of my cousins are in combat, have enlisted as resrves and will go into the Gaza strip if it's invaded, so I'm worried for their safety.
  2. In two word: Yes, exactly. 
    Israel's strategy since the Hamas took the strip over
... (read more)

Israel's strategy since the Hamas took the strip over in 2007 has been to try and contain it, and keeping it weak by periodic, limited confrontations (the so called Mowing the Lawn doctorine), and trying to economically develop the strip in order to give Hamas incentives to avoid confrontation. While Hamas grew stronger, the general feeling was that the strategy works and the last 15 years were not that bad.

I am surprised to read the bolded part! What actions have the Israeli government taken to develop Gaza, and did Gaza actually develop economically in t... (read more)

I would look deeper into Israel's policy around cash transfers per child to see how big is the effect. We used to have extremely generous transfers for families with four or more children (veryuch non optimal, it was the result of pressure by the Ultra- Orthodox parties), so generous that families literally lived off of them. They stopped after 2001 for being unsustainable, and you can clearly see fertility rates taking a hit. If I remember correctly Kohelet Forum published a research about it a few years back.

For what it's worth, I got to Kameel independently, from an Israeli East Europe expert.

I did similar trades to yours- call on VXX, and put on JETS (nothing on USO, as I don't think it can get much lower than it already is). As the market doesn't react to the rising case numbers in the US (and maybe more importantly, in Ireland, where they have a horrible outbreak), do you think the market might just factor the coming outbreak as a net positive, since everyone will be either vaccinated or immune after it? Also, vaccine distribution in the US seems to be accelerating, the British strain seems to be a bit less contagious than thought in Decembe... (read more)