Awesome work.
One thing that disappointed, but didn't really surprise me, was the lack of diversity in the community
"160 (96.4%) were male, 5 (3%) were female, and one chose not to reveal their gender.
The mean age was 27.16, the median was 25, and the SD was 7.68. The youngest person was 16, and the oldest was 60. Quartiles were 30.
Of the 158 of us who disclosed our race, 148 were white (93.6%), 6 were Asian, 1 was Black, 2 were Hispanic, and one cast a write-in vote for Middle Eastern. Judging by the number who put "Hinduism" as their family religion, most of those Asians seem to be Indians."
The thing that particularly worries me is our low age. Now it's to be expected as internet communities are a young person's game but I'd be more comfortable with an average age closer to 30.
Combine that with the fact that most of us seem to be in Computers or Engineering (I'd really like to know what those "Other Hard Sciences" were) I do worry about our rationality as a group. One thing I've noticed with junk science is that Engineers and to a lesser extent Computer Scientists seem to be overrepresented. I'm not sure of all the reasons for this, I suspect that par...
I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence.
I've been playing alot of portal and half life 2 lately. (first person shooters with heavy puzzle elements) and I wonder about how the level design is affecting my thought process.
I'm often in a room with a prominent exit and it is clear that that is the exit I'm supposed to take. When the way I came in is blocked I know that there is some other way to get out. When my computer controlled squad mates parrot 'which way do we go?' I think to myself 'What do you mean? It's obvious the level designer wants us to go this way."
I wonder if this will affect how I deal with real world puzzles where there are many paths that don't lead to defined goals, but also don't lead to a clear dead end.
I'm surprised to see how close I was to the mean in so many cases. I expected on several questions that I would be, if not an outlier, then outside the middle quartiles. I was wrong in most cases. Clearly the OB/LW brainwashing process has been more successful than I realised... :P
Seriously, very interesting results. I'm a bit dismayed by the 3% female figure -- I knew I was in a minority, but I didn't realise it was that tiny. I wish I could articulate some suggestions for getting hold of more female readers/commenters. I can sort of see intuitively how this place could seem like not the most attractive one to some women, but I don't have any ideas for sorting that out. Largely I guess it may just be a self-perpetuating thing. Perhaps the first step ought to be just getting some of the current female readers/commenters to make (more/some) top-level posts too. I wish I felt brave and knowledgeable and intelligent enough to attempt one touching on some aspect or other of feminism.
I'm perplexed by the person who believes that the most severe existential risk is an asteroid strike, yet gave only 70% odds of surviving the century.
The main thing I take away from this survey is that many of us still think they can assign 99%+ probabilities based on no good info (the aliens and existential risk questions stand out in particular). Maybe the LW community needs to focus more on the basics?
Why the heck is the average stated probability of a creator god greater than the average stated probability of something supernatural existing? Or did a team of scientists in a parallel universe count as a creator god?
Two things surprise me.
First while 73.4% of responders are consequentialists and only 9% deontologists, at the same time 45% of responders are libertarians. While labels like that are vague, libertarianism is in most versions highly deontologist ideology, and cares about processes and not results as such.
The other thing was 33.3% of "single and looking" (plus 24.2% of "single and not looking" consists of some mix of "single and not interested" and "single, tried but given up"). There are some well known seduction tec...
While labels like that are vague, libertarianism is in most versions highly deontologist ideology, and cares about processes and not results as such.
The libertarian writing I've seen is primarily consequentialist: arguments, mostly by economists, that governments produce worse results than people directing their own efforts for their own reasons. So I see no contradiction in the survey responses.
If, in the places I don't read, which are surely more numerous than those I do, libertarianism is mainly promoted by arguments that government is morally wrong, then I can see why the Libertarian party has never been more than a splinter movement.
The argument I've seen is mostly something like:
This sort of post-hoc consequentalization of essentially deontological ethics is extremely common. I don't know that many deontologies that have balls to avoid this trick, and assert that they don't care about consequences.
Ask a typical Christian, or other theist, and just like a libertarian, they will tell you something like that:
I'm reluctant to jump into a long discussion of the specifics of libertarian public policy -- mind killer and all that -- but in light of the terrible account of itself libertarianism has given you and SoullessAutomaton, maybe a few nonspecific comments are in order.
There's such a thing as libertarian public policy research. It happens in think tanks. It gets done by academics (mostly economists), it incorporates peer review, and it usually doesn't hold with the kind of boorish behavior you're describing. Many of its hypotheticals are imports from the most inconvenient possible world. Specifically, it acknowledges that market failures exist and that government intervention is sometimes the most effective way to deal with them; that regulation has legitimate uses in service of the public good; and above all that pragmatism and compromise are the only virtues that can survive in the political arena.
Like most public policy it is essentially utilitarian, and its specific claims center around the idea that society is too complex for any central authority to administer efficiently. That's to say, while there are many good ends the government might achieve through intervention in th...
IQs (warning: self-reported numbers for notoriously hard-to-measure statistic)
Yeah, I'm extremely skeptical of the IQ data. Assuming a standard mean=100 SD=15 test (although at least one respondent says he took a test with SD=24), our reputed median is above the 0.003th percentile. I don't think any public blog is that elite.
ERRATUM: Oh, dear. I meant 99.7th percentile.
It's only a little more surprising than somebody at an online forum for bodybuilders lying about how much they can bench press.
Person who put "2172", you probably thought you were screwing up the results, but in fact you managed to counterbalance the other person who put "1700", allowing the mean to revert back to within one year of the correct value :P
Not to worry - I am a believer in the wisdom of crowds, so I knew full well that I wasn't going to be screwing up anything. That response was pure noise.
I just don't like guessing, and so I put "0%" for my confidence on that question, so that one of my answers was definitely wrong and the other was definitely right.
There was a .453 correlation between this number and actual IQ; that is, 45% of the variance in how likely you thought you were to have a higher-than-average IQ could be explained by your actual IQ.
Correlation is r and percent of variance explained is r^2, so I think that should be 21% rather than 45%. There's also a typo where you say ".5 level" and presumably mean .05.
Probability of some Creator God: 4.2, 0, 14.6. Probability of something supernatural existing: 4.1, 0, 12.8.
It looks like some of us have yet to overcome the conjunction fallacy.
If you intend to hide something by shuffling the results, it's probably also a good idea to remove the "timestamp" column :-)
Would whomever gave answers of "irrelevant" to the alien questions, among other peculiar responses, be willing to identify and explain himself?
Re: Probability of an average person cryonically frozen today being successfully revived: 22.3, 10, 26.2.
An enormous estimate, IMO - close to that given by the salesmen(!):
It's interesting that Yvain credited The Great Filter with the huge standard deviations seen in the existence of aliens question. I don't recall seeing any qualifier about conscious or intelligent beings. When in doubt, blame Cached Thoughts :)
Also, does observable mean within our future or past light cone?
...Here is an anomalous finding I didn't expect: the higher a probability you assign to the truth of revealed religion, the less confident you are that your IQ is above average (even though no correlation between this religious belief and IQ was actually found). Significance is at the .025 level. I have two theories on this: first, that we've been telling religious people they're stupid for so long that it's finally starting to sink in :) Second, that most people here are not religious, and so the people who put a "high" probability for revealed re
It saddens me that so many people assigned extreme probabilities to propositions that may well be false. Makes me wonder what the entire OB/LW project has been for.
14 people (10.9%) didn't believe in morality.
I'd really like to know what these folks are thinking. Are they using 'morality' in the way Nietzsche did when he called himself an amoralist? Or do they really think there's nothing to the concepts of 'good/bad' and 'right/wrong'?
Supposing one wants to open a pickle jar, and one considers the acts of (a)twisting the top until it comes off, (b)smashing the jar with a hammer, and (c) cutting off one's own hand with a chainsaw, do these folks think (for instance) that (a) is no better than (c)?
I would guess that they would say that one can certainly have preferences, without there being anything worth calling "morality".
of the 102 people who cared about the ending to 3 Worlds Collide, 68 (66.6%) prefered to see the humans blow up Huygens, while 34 (33.3%) thought we'd be better off cooperating with the aliens and eating delicious babies.
I'm shocked. Are there any significant variations in the responses of babyeaters compared to freedom fighters to other questions?
Can I make a pro-babyeater argument?
Here is a dialogue between an imaginary six-year-old child named Dennis and myself.
Me: Hi Dennis, do you like broccoli?
Dennis: No, I hate it!
Me: But it's good for you, right?
Dennis: I don't care! It tastes awful!
Me: Would you like to like broccoli?
Dennis: No, I can't stand broccoli! That stuff is gross!
Me: What if I told you some magic words that would make it so that every piece of broccoli you ever ate would taste just like chocolate if you said them? Would you say the magic words?
Dennis: Well...
Me: You like chocolate, don't you?
Dennis: Yes, but...
Me: What?
Dennis: Your questions are too hard.
I think everyone has conflicts between their different wants. I want to do well in my classes, but I don't want to study. And yet I can't think of any conflicts between my metawants: If I could choose to like studying just as much as I like my favorite computer game, I would make that choice. The wants offered to the humans in the babyeaters story seem fairly sensible from a utilitarian perspective. They promote peace throughout the galaxy and mean lots of fun for everyone. What's not to like?
Followup to: Excuse Me, Would You Like to Take a Survey?, Return of the Survey
Thank you to everyone who took the Less Wrong survey. I've calculated some results out on SPSS, and I've uploaded the data for anyone who wants it. I removed twelve people who wanted to remain private, removed a few people's karma upon request, and re-sorted the results so you can't figure out that the first person on the spreadsheet was the first person to post "I took it" on the comments thread and so on. Warning: you will probably not get exactly the same results as me, because a lot of people gave poor, barely comprehensible write in answers, which I tried to round off to the nearest bin.
Download the spreadsheet (right now it's in .xls format)
I am not a statistician, although I occasionally have to use statistics for various things, and I will gladly accept corrections for anything I've done wrong. Any Bayesian purists may wish to avert their eyes, as the whole analysis is frequentist. What can I say? I get SPSS software and training free and I don't like rejecting free stuff. The write-up below is missing answers to a few questions that I couldn't figure out how to analyze properly; anyone who cares about them enough can look at the raw data and try it themselves. Results under the cut.
Out of 166 respondees:
160 (96.4%) were male, 5 (3%) were female, and one chose not to reveal their gender.
The mean age was 27.16, the median was 25, and the SD was 7.68. The youngest person was 16, and the oldest was 60. Quartiles were <22, 22-25, 25-30, and >30.
Of the 158 of us who disclosed our race, 148 were white (93.6%), 6 were Asian, 1 was Black, 2 were Hispanic, and one cast a write-in vote for Middle Eastern. Judging by the number who put "Hinduism" as their family religion, most of those Asians seem to be Indians.
Of the 165 of us who gave readable relationship information, 55 (33.3%) are single and looking, 40 (24.2%) are single but not looking, 40 (24.2%) are in a relationship, 29 (17.6%) are married, and 1 is divorced.
Only 138 gave readable political information (those of you who refused to identify with any party and instead sent me manifestos, thank you for enlightening me, but I was unfortunately unable to do statistics on them). We have 62 (45%) libertarians, 53 (38.4%) liberals, 17 (12.3%) socialists, 6 (4.3%) conservatives, and not one person willing to own up to being a commie.
Of the 164 people who gave readable religious information, 134 (81.7%) were atheists and not spiritual; 5 other atheists described themselves as "spiritual". Counting deists and pantheists, we had 11 believers in a supreme being (6.7%), of whom 2 were deist/pantheist, 2 were lukewarm theists, and 6 were committed theists. 14 of us (8.5%) were agnostic.
53 of us were raised in families of "about average religiousity" (31.9%). 24 (14.5%) were from extremely religious families, 45 (27.1%) from nonreligious families, and 9 (5.4%) from explicitly atheist families. 30 (18.1%) were from families less religious than average. The remainder wrote in some hard to categorize responses, like an atheist father and religious mother, or vice versa.
Of the 106 of us who listed our family's religious background, 92 (87%) were Christian. Of the Christians, 29 (31.5% of Christians) described their backgrounds as Catholic, 30 (32.6% of Christians) described it as Protestant, and the rest gave various hard-to-classify denominations or simply described themselves as "Christian". There were also 9 Jews, 3 Hindus, 1 Muslim, and one New Ager.
I didn't run the "how much of Overcoming Bias have you read" question so well, and people ended up responding things like "Oh, most of it", which are again hard to average. After interpreting things extremely liberally and unscientifically ("most" was estimated as 75%, "a bit" was estimated at 25%, et cetera) I got that the average LWer has read about half of OB, with a slight tendency to read more of Eliezer's posts than Robin's.
Average time in the OB/LW community was 13.6 ± 9.2 months. Average time spent on the site per day was 30.7 ± 30.4 minutes.
IQs (warning: self-reported numbers for notoriously hard-to-measure statistic) ranged from 120 to 180. The mean was 145.88, median was 141.50, and SD was 14.02. Quartiles were <133, 133-141.5, 141.5-155, and >155.
77 people were willing to go out on a limb and guess whether their IQ would be above the median or not. The mean confidence level was 54.4, and the median confidence level was 55 - which shows a remarkable lack of self-promoting bias. The quartiles were <40, 40-55, 55-70, >70. There was a .453 correlation between this number and actual IQ. This number was significant at the <.001 level.
Probability of Many Worlds being more or less correct (given as mean, median, SD; all probabilities in percentage format): 55.65, 65, 32.9.
Probability of aliens in the observable Universe: 70.3, 90, 35.7.
Probability of aliens in our galaxy: 40.9, 35, 38.5. Notice the huge standard deviations here; the alien questions were remarkable both for the high number of people who put answers above 99.9, and the high number of people who put answers below 0.1. My guess: people who read about The Great Filter versus those who didn't.
Probability of some revealed religion being true: 3.8, 0, 12.6.
Probability of some Creator God: 4.2, 0, 14.6.
Probability of something supernatural existing: 4.1, 0, 12.8.
Probability of an average person cryonically frozen today being successfully revived: 22.3, 10, 26.2.
Probability of anti-agathic drugs allowing the current generation to live beyond 1000: 29.2, 20, 30.8.
Probability that we live in a simulation: 16.9, 5, 23.7.
Probability of anthropic global warming: 69.4, 80, 27.8.
Probability that we make it to 2100 without a catastrophe killing >90% of us: 73.1, 80, 24.6.
When asked to determine a year in which the Singularity might take place, the mean guess was 9,899 AD, but this is only because one person insisted on putting 100,000 AD. The median might be a better measure in this case; it was mid-2067.
Thomas Edison patented the lightbulb in 1880. I've never before been a firm believer in the wisdom of crowds, but it really came through in this case. Even though this was clearly not an easy question and many people got really far-off answers, the mean was 1879.3 and the median was 1880. The standard deviation was 36.1. Person who put "2172", you probably thought you were screwing up the results, but in fact you managed to counterbalance the other person who put "1700", allowing the mean to revert back to within one year of the correct value :P
The average person was 26.77% sure they got within 5 years of the correct answer on the lightbulb question. 30% of people did get within 5 years. I'm not sure how much to trust the result, because several people put the exact correct year down and gave it 100% confidence. Either they were really paying attention in history class, or they checked Wikipedia. There was a high correlation between high levels of confidence on the question and actually getting the question right, significant at the <.001 level.
I ran some correlations between different things, but they're nothing very interesting. I'm listing the ones that are significant at the <.05 level, but keep in mind that since I just tried correlating everything with everything else, there are a couple hundred correlations and it's absolutely plausible that many things would achieve that significance level by pure chance.
How long you've been in the community obviously correlates very closely with how much of Robin and Eliezer's posts you've read (and both correlate with each other).
People who have read more of Robin and Eliezer's posts have higher karma. People who spend more time per day on Less Wrong have higher karma (with very strong significance, at the <.001 level.)
People who have been in the community a long time and read many of EY and RH's posts are more likely to believe in Many Worlds and Cryonics, two unusual topics that were addressed particularly well on Overcoming Bias. That suggests if you're a new person who doesn't currently believe in those two ideas, and they're important to you, you might want to go back and find the OB sequences about them (here's Many Worlds, and here's some cryonics). There were no similar effects on things like belief in God or belief in aliens.
Older people were less likely to spend a lot of time on the site, less likely to believe in Many Worlds, less likely to believe in global warming, and more likely to believe in aliens.
Everything in the God/revealed religion/supernatural cluster correlated pretty well with each other. Belief in cryonics correlated pretty well with belief in anti-agathics.
Here is an anomalous finding I didn't expect: the higher a probability you assign to the truth of revealed religion, the less confident you are that your IQ is above average (even though no correlation between this religious belief and IQ was actually found). Significance is at the .025 level. I have two theories on this: first, that we've been telling religious people they're stupid for so long that it's finally starting to sink in :) Second, that most people here are not religious, and so the people who put a "high" probability for revealed religion may be assigning it 5% or 10%, not because they believe it but because they're just underconfident people who maybe overadjust for their biases a little much. This same underconfidence leads them to underestimate the possibility that their IQ is above average.
The higher probability you assign to the existence of aliens in the universe, the more likely you are to think we'll survive until 2100 (p=.002). There is no similar correlation for aliens in the galaxy. I credit the Great Filter article for this one too - if no other species exist, it could mean something killed them off.
And, uh, the higher probability you assign to the existence of aliens in the galaxy (but not in the universe) the more likely you are (at a .05 sig) to think global warming is man-made. I have no explanation for this one. Probably one of those coincidences.
Moving on - of the 102 people who cared about the ending to 3 Worlds Collide, 68 (66.6%) prefered to see the humans blow up Huygens, while 34 (33.3%) thought we'd be better off cooperating with the aliens and eating delicious babies.
Of the 114 people who had opinions about the Singularity, 85 (74.6%) go with Eliezer's version, and 29 (25.4%) go with Robin's.
If you're playing another Less Wronger in the Prisoner's Dilemma, you should know that of the 133 who provided valid information for this question, 96 (72.2%) would cooperate and 37 (27.8%) would defect. The numbers switch when one player becomes an evil paper-clip loving robot; out of 126 willing to play the "true" Prisoner's Dilemma, only 42% cooperate and 58% defect.
Of the 124 of us willing to play the Counterfactual Mugging, 53 (42.7%) would give Omega the money, and 71 (57.3%) would laugh in his face.
Of the 146 of us who had an opinion on aid to Africa, 24 (16.4%) thought it was almost always a good thing, 42 (27.8%) thought it was almost always a bad thing, and 80 (54.8%) took a middle-of-the-road approach and said it could be good, but only in a few cases where it was done right.
Of 128 of us who wanted to talk about our moral theories, 94 (73.4%) were consequentialists, about evenly split between garden-variety or Eliezer-variety (many complained they didn't know what Eliezer's interpretation was, or what the generic interpretation was, or that all they knew was that they were consequentialists). 15 (9%) said with more or fewer disclaimers that they were basically deontologists, and 5 (3.9%) wrote-in virtue ethics, and objected to their beliefs being left out (sorry!). 14 people (10.9%) didn't believe in morality.
Despite the seemingly overwhelming support for cryonics any time someone mentions it, only three of us are actually signed up! Of the 161 of us who admitted we weren't, 11 (6.8%) just never thought about it, 99 (59.6%) are still considering it, and 51 (31.7%) have decided against it.