I don't have anything clever or insightful to say, just that I had not heard of this talk before so thank you for both bringing it back up and for transcribing it!
Thanking people for providing a public good is one way to pay them for it, so it should increase the quantity of public goods delivered. (Such expressions of thanks are themselves public goods, actually, so thank you. Aaaaaah, infinite spiral of meta!) There's no need to apologize.
A bit more related, I think: hegemonicon's Why You're Stuck in a Narrative. I was unsure whether to mention it in the post.
Cowen's talk reminds me of something C.S. Lewis mentioned in one of his books (perhaps it was "Miracles"): what he called, "picture-thinking".
Lewis noted that when we think about God, for example, many people will think of a kindly old, Caucasian man with a long white beard, sitting in a chair somehow anchored among fluffy white clouds. They will do this even though they know that God is invisible, certainly not male, nor Caucasian.
Lewis' point was that it's OK to have the picture in your head, as long as you know it is not literally true. We can posit that the picture may be true and useful in certain other respects (for example, for teaching that God wants to love and be loved as a "father", and that the kindly old man with the beard image helps us remember that).
The same should be applied to any stories; it ought to be OK to mentally organize certain of our mental storehouse of facts and opinions by telling ourselves stories, just as long as we don't mistake the story for "the whole enchilada", nor categorically rule out some story which, on the surface, appears to conflict with it.
Just as a good artisan or technician has a well-stocked toolbox and selects his tool with forethought and uses it with care, the intellectually well-stocked thinker uses multiple tools, ideally in a conscious way.
Upvoted before reading because I like transcripts. Now I want to upvote it again. C'm'on, at least put this in Main.
Is this really important enough to put in Main?
Edit: I'm not going to move it. If an editor thinks it should be moved, though, I won't object.
I wish you more karma (transcribing a talk saves my time and also lets me consider a talk more carefully), but I think that transcriptions of other people's talks belong in Discussion, with very few exceptions.
Very nicely done.
For emphasis I cut and paste the following:
as an economist, I'm thinking about life on the margin. The extra decision: should we think more in terms of stories, or less in terms of stories? When we hear stories, should we be more suspicious? and what kind of stories should we be suspicious of?
This repetition of "at the margin" or "on the margin" and even calling his blog Marginal Revolution may be the biggest thing about Cowen's writing which really hooks me.
And now some narrative. In the beginning the story was a memory device. There were bards and storytellers before we had writing and their greatest power may be as mnemonic. I have forgotten where I saw this--it may have been in a largely bogus pop psychology book--but one story about stories I have always liked goes something like: when telling a fairy tale to a child, they will never permit you to alter or leave out any important detail. So say you are telling Cinderella; in that case you cannot leave out the part about the abusive stepmother and stepsisters, or the child immediately goes bonkers.
I have no idea if that is true or not but it certainly is memorable.
OK one more and then I will stop. I took a community police class a couple years ago. Three hours, one night a week, ten weeks. Really interesting. It was free and if you have one in your town I highly recommend going for it. One of the things in the class was the pedophile detective explaining how you do an interrogation to catch a suspect in a lie. He said the trick (and it's really easy) is you get him to retell his story starting over again in the middle. He claimed the guys have their story memorized A, B, C, D, E, . . . X, Y, Z. But, if you say: OK begin at F and start over; or, if you ask: now did M happen before O or did O happen first? They always had to go back to A and start over again in their mind from the beginning of their story and that 40 second or 80 second or whatever delay while they were working down from A was the tell.
I have no idea if that is true or not either but it certainly is memorable for me.
Cowen is right to critique the overuse of narratives to make a point; his critique at heart is a critique of reliance on anecdotal evidence. But I also catch an echo of the argument Plato uses to exclude poetry from the Republic. Perhaps Cowen is too restrictive in the way he thinks about 'story.'
Cowen buys into Booker's model, and similar models, which organize the universe of stories into a number of types -- quest, comedy, tragedy, etc. -- and concludes that we tell ourselves the same stories over and over again. But a careful reader might notice that Booker's types are just that -- types, or subcategories within a larger category. If you define 'story' in its more fundamental sense, I'm willing to argue, you find it is a shape, not a content -- the shape being that of moving from conflict through rising action to resolution. Stories are an entertaining way of organizing experience based on as natural a process as the weather when a cold front meets warm, moist air. 'Story,' the shape, has no truth value, though often writers in the course of a narrative introduce elements subject to verification, and, alas, many of our popular stories turn on some form of confirmation bias or sentimental wish-fulfillment. But that has to do with what we put in our stories; they're not inherent in the shape itself.
Cowen's right to critique the overuse of narrative as evidence, but there's more to the story (excuse the pun) of narrative's unique position in human experience.
Cowen's is a very good and very useful insight, because so many people, especially in the popular press, seem to think solely in terms of pre-fabricated narratives. But it's also a deleterious one if you hold on to it too tightly—in the real world, decisions must be made under uncertainty, and insisting on (an always arbitrarily determined level of) rigor in one's decisionmaking while deprecating stories entirely is likely to lead one astray. Reason needs to be tested against experience, and stories can be valuable condensations of experience that serve as intuition pumps. Certain stories are also useful as models of human behavior—granted, they can be extremely easy to misuse, I've seen many do so, but in capable hands they're a great complement to one's thinking. Aside from that, one should keep in mind that, in a sense, Tyler's talk is itself a "story" in his sense, with the same potential to manipulate and compel that all stories have.
There is value in what Tyler is saying but there is also a second side to this argument which I think FeatherlessBiped and Renope have already picked up on. The idea of narrative or story is just about the oldest means of communicating there is for humanity. We only have to open up the world of mythology and the various types of Greek, Roman, Indian, Norse, Celtic myths to understand their are multiple layers of meaning and value in understanding the common human condition. As a child reads the Greek Myths that child on one level understands and enjoys that myth. However the trick comes later when the grown adult truly understands deeper levels of meaning not comprehended in that younger age. Myths also serve humanities greatest trials, quests and conflicts... The repeating stories of life. Not just "stories" for the story's sake. This is an interesting juxtaposition then. Ancient humanity vs The Modern World as we know it. The problem of today and the world we live in is that the free market economy has become so endemic in terms of infiltrating others modes of civilized life that it now takes a modern person with a keen sense of critical judgement to determine whether or not one is being "sold" something in a world where the idea of the story has been subverted by the values of the socety we live in - the other side of the coin.
This talk was good enough that I finally went and subscribed to Marginal Revolution.
Thanks for transcribing!
I was shocked, absolutely shocked, to find that Tyler Cowen's excellent TEDxMidAtlantic talk on stories had not yet been transcribed. It generated a lot of discussion in the thread about it where it was first introduced, so I went ahead and transcribed it. I added hyperlinks to background information where I thought it was due. Here you go:
Host: In normal times, a blog written by an economist might not get that much attention, but our next presenter's blog, called Marginal Revolution, is quite popular, and he writes a column for the New York Times called the Economic Scene, here to explain the world to us in terms of the Great Recession and beyond, is Tyler Cowen.
By the time I got to the line, "throw out your Tolstoy," I had written "story" so many times that I accidentally wrote, "throw out your Tolstory".